Red Wave Radio

by **John Smit** » Mon, 04 Feb 2008 01:11:57

This article:
http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2008/02/02/2008-02-02_low_blow_f...

claims that a special antenna is needed to get HDTV (over the air, as
opposed to cable/sat box.) I was not aware of that fact. Are they
revamping all TV freqs.

I am just beginning to search if this article is bogus or not. Was
hoping someone here was in the industry and give us a
"quick-start-guru-tutorial."

Regards,
JS

by **Cecil Moor** » Mon, 04 Feb 2008 01:46:18

> This article:
> http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2008/02/02/2008-02-02_low_blow_f...
> claims that a special antenna is needed to get HDTV (over the air, as
> opposed to cable/sat box.)

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/types.html

"HDTV Antennas"
"An antenna made for analog TV will work fine for DTV.
There is nothing different about an antenna for DTV or
HDTV. Unscrupulous people have labeled their antennas
'HDTV Antennas' as a marketing ploy. The honest antenna
makers have had to re-label their products likewise to
avoid losing sales."
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

by **John Smit** » Mon, 04 Feb 2008 02:04:01

> ...
> http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/types.html

> "HDTV Antennas"
> "An antenna made for analog TV will work fine for DTV.
> There is nothing different about an antenna for DTV or
> HDTV. Unscrupulous people have labeled their antennas
> 'HDTV Antennas' as a marketing ploy. The honest antenna
> makers have had to re-label their products likewise to
> avoid losing sales."

This is what I suspected. I have SAT TV, but in the
hobby/game/computer/catch-all room of the house, the TV just has a set
of homemade/amplified rabbit ears. These may be able to be designed a
bit different for HDTV (mainly, amp filtered for a narrower freq range(s).)

Sometimes I miss things--thinking I know all about them--or else, am
side-tracked by "industry-disinformation" ... thanks for the backup.

I will keep double checking however, as with analog TV there is the
pesky ~3.5Mhz color signal to worry about.

Regards,
JS

by **Dave Hei** » Mon, 04 Feb 2008 02:21:39

>> This article:
>> http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2008/02/02/2008-02-02_low_blow_f...
>> claims that a special antenna is needed to get HDTV (over the air, as
>> opposed to cable/sat box.)

> http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/types.html

> "HDTV Antennas"
> "An antenna made for analog TV will work fine for DTV.
> There is nothing different about an antenna for DTV or
> HDTV. Unscrupulous people have labeled their antennas
> 'HDTV Antennas' as a marketing ploy. The honest antenna
> makers have had to re-label their products likewise to
> avoid losing sales."

There aren't any VHF digital TV signals. If one lives any distance from
a station transmitting in HD or SD, it is necessary to have an antenna
with plenty of UHF gain. Eleven UHF elements, RG-6 feedline and an
indoor, variable gain preamp give me twenty or so digital channels from
my local area and from the Pittsburgh area. This works for my living
room Hi-Def set or for the HD PCI card in the computer near the hamshack.

Dave K8MN

by **John Smit** » Mon, 04 Feb 2008 02:25:56

> ...
> There aren't any VHF digital TV signals. If one lives any distance from
> a station transmitting in HD or SD, it is necessary to have an antenna
> with plenty of UHF gain. Eleven UHF elements, RG-6 feedline and an
> indoor, variable gain preamp give me twenty or so digital channels from
> my local area and from the Pittsburgh area. This works for my living
> room Hi-Def set or for the HD PCI card in the computer near the hamshack.

> Dave K8MN

This leads me in the direction of thinking about a log periodic for the
UHF freqs in question.

If I lived in larger quarters, this would even make a parabolic within
reason.

Regards,
JS

by **Dave Pla** » Mon, 04 Feb 2008 03:35:40

Quote:>There aren't any VHF digital TV signals.

Not today. But there will be, when the Big Switchover occurs. A
significant number of stations which currently have their NTSC analog
signals in the VHF range, and which have a temporary UHF allocation
for their ATSC digital signals, will be moving the digital signals
down to their VHF frequencies when the NTSC shutoff data occurs,
rather than giving up the VHF frequency entirely.

There are a couple of reasons why this is being done. I believe that
it adds up to "better digital coverage" - better antenna site, better
transmitter, or (most commonly I think) a larger distance to the
nearest competing station on that frequency. Some stations
(especially in crowded urban areas) were stuck with UHF transition
frequencies that have significant competition in nearby cities, and
aren't allowed to transmit at full power... the band's pretty full.

Most of these stations have VHF allocations in the highband (channels
7 through 13). There are a very few stations in the VHF lowband
(channels 2 through 6) which will be running ATSC digital in the
lowband. but I'm told that this is being discouraged by the FCC and is
technically less than ideal (more impulse-noise interference in the
lowband).

Quote:> If one lives any distance from
>a station transmitting in HD or SD, it is necessary to have an antenna
>with plenty of UHF gain. Eleven UHF elements, RG-6 feedline and an
>indoor, variable gain preamp give me twenty or so digital channels from
>my local area and from the Pittsburgh area. This works for my living
>room Hi-Def set or for the HD PCI card in the computer near the hamshack.

In many areas of the country, a UHF-only antenna will prove adequate
for ATSC reception.

In those areas in which one or more stations will be transmitting ATSC
in the VHF band after The Day, an antenna with decent gain and
directionality at both UHF and VHF will be necessary if you want to
get all of the available channels. In most cases, UHF plus VHF
highband will be adequate. A very few cities will require antennas
that handle the VHF low-band as well. People jn these areas who have
bought UHF-only "digital TV" antennas may be in for a rude shock.

The same designs that have been sold for decades (i.e. log-periodics
with additional reflectors and elements for UHF) should work just
fine. A rotator may be useful or necessary.

The FCC's rulemaking document (latest version I know of) has a table
of the actual frequency allocations for DTV, including coverage areas
and interference levels:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-06-150A1.pdf

--

Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

by **MTV** » Mon, 04 Feb 2008 03:41:43

>>> This article:
>>> http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2008/02/02/2008-02-02_low_blow_f...
>>> claims that a special antenna is needed to get HDTV (over the air, as
>>> opposed to cable/sat box.)

>> http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/types.html

>> "HDTV Antennas"
>> "An antenna made for analog TV will work fine for DTV.
>> There is nothing different about an antenna for DTV or
>> HDTV. Unscrupulous people have labeled their antennas
>> 'HDTV Antennas' as a marketing ploy. The honest antenna
>> makers have had to re-label their products likewise to
>> avoid losing sales."

> There aren't any VHF digital TV signals. If one lives any distance from
> a station transmitting in HD or SD, it is necessary to have an antenna
> with plenty of UHF gain. Eleven UHF elements, RG-6 feedline and an
> indoor, variable gain preamp give me twenty or so digital channels from
> my local area and from the Pittsburgh area. This works for my living
> room Hi-Def set or for the HD PCI card in the computer near the hamshack.

> Dave K8MN

Here in the Houston area there're three local stations broadcasting DT
in the VHF bands, one in the low band and two in the upper VHF band. The
other ten DT stations are in the UHF band, with Virtual broadcasts in
the upper end of their regular VHF channels. I'm not sure how that
works, but DT tuners can find them.

All will be UHF before the cut-off day in 2009.

Marv
W5MTV

--
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by **Suzy** » Mon, 04 Feb 2008 05:09:44

>> This article:
>> http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2008/02/02/2008-02-02_low_blow_f...
>> claims that a special antenna is needed to get HDTV (over the air, as
>> opposed to cable/sat box.)

> http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/types.html

> "HDTV Antennas"
> "An antenna made for analog TV will work fine for DTV.
> There is nothing different about an antenna for DTV or
> HDTV. Unscrupulous people have labeled their antennas
> 'HDTV Antennas' as a marketing ploy. The honest antenna
> makers have had to re-label their products likewise to
> avoid losing sales."
> --
> 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Absolutely. It's only relevant if the DTV channel happens to be on a widely
differing frequency where the "analogue" antenna is optimised for another
channel (= frequency).

Same as a different antenna for the CW part of a band (ie "CW" antenna)

by **Bob Dixo** » Wed, 06 Feb 2008 04:11:28

Re HDTV. It would seem there are at least 2 boondoggles going on.

1. Cable and satellite providers claim they are carrying local HD
channels. But what they don't say is that most local digital stations
have multiple digital programs (One of my locals has 5), and only ONE of
those is usually carried by the mass providers. The only way to get the
rest is with a local antenna.

2. It is easily possible to distribute SD TV signals throughout your
house using an NTSC modulator and coax cable. But you can't do that with
HD TV, because the MPAA has made it impossible to buy the required ATSC
modulator. I wonder how long that restriction will survive after analog
TV goes away?

Bob W8ERD

> > ...
> > http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/types.html

> > "HDTV Antennas"
> > "An antenna made for analog TV will work fine for DTV.
> > There is nothing different about an antenna for DTV or
> > HDTV. Unscrupulous people have labeled their antennas
> > 'HDTV Antennas' as a marketing ploy. The honest antenna
> > makers have had to re-label their products likewise to
> > avoid losing sales."

> This is what I suspected. I have SAT TV, but in the
> hobby/game/computer/catch-all room of the house, the TV just has a set
> of homemade/amplified rabbit ears. These may be able to be designed a
> bit different for HDTV (mainly, amp filtered for a narrower freq range(s).)

> Sometimes I miss things--thinking I know all about them--or else, am
> side-tracked by "industry-disinformation" ... thanks for the backup.

> I will keep double checking however, as with analog TV there is the
> pesky ~3.5Mhz color signal to worry about.

> Regards,
> JS

by **Eric Oyen - N7ZZ** » Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:36:55

> This article:

http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2008/02/02/2008-02-02_low_blow_f...

Quote:
> claims that a special antenna is needed to get HDTV (over the air, as
> opposed to cable/sat box.) I was not aware of that fact. Are they
> revamping all TV freqs.

heh. more hype from the TV industry to separate fools from their money.
the truth is, all you need is a standard UHF capable TV antenna (as this is
where most if not all the DTV/HDTV signals will be present).

A standard vhf/uhf mast mounted antella will work for nearly 99% of all
urban environments in large urban centers.

Quote:
> I am just beginning to search if this article is bogus or not. Was
> hoping someone here was in the industry and give us a
> "quick-start-guru-tutorial."

> Regards,
> JS

not sure that such a thing exists. However, the ARRL has some nice
publications on UHF style antennas.

--
Sometimes, you just gotta come right out and say whats on your mind and be
damned those who would ridicule you for it!

by **John Smit** » Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:34:15

>> This article:

> http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2008/02/02/2008-02-02_low_blow_f...
>> claims that a special antenna is needed to get HDTV (over the air, as
>> opposed to cable/sat box.) I was not aware of that fact. Are they
>> revamping all TV freqs.
> heh. more hype from the TV industry to separate fools from their money.
> the truth is, all you need is a standard UHF capable TV antenna (as this is
> where most if not all the DTV/HDTV signals will be present).

> A standard vhf/uhf mast mounted antella will work for nearly 99% of all
> urban environments in large urban centers.

>> I am just beginning to search if this article is bogus or not. Was
>> hoping someone here was in the industry and give us a
>> "quick-start-guru-tutorial."

>> Regards,
>> JS

> not sure that such a thing exists. However, the ARRL has some nice
> publications on UHF style antennas.

Well, all that and taking into consideration a whole bunch of TV freqs
are/have-been auctioned off to the highest bidder, and therefore, it is
no longer necessary to have the antenna designed to receive them.

But, the major point of yours is right on ... thanks for the reaffirmation.

Warm regards,
JS

by **Karl Beckma** » Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:11:15

Actually there ARE numerous VHF TV stations running digital (HD) today,
right along with their SD NTSC broadcasts on a different channel. In
Cleveland OH all the major networks have their HD on the air in addition to
analog, though not all of them are broadcasting digital on the channels they
will use starting Feb 17, 2009. Asd an example, NBC is analog on 3, digital
on 2 today; their digital will move to 17 during the cutover and both 2 and
3 will be abandoned. FYI, the FCC has advised the cable companies that they
are required to carry the HD as non-encrypted ATSC, in addition to analog.
Both have to be in the basic tier of channels. Some digital TV
manufacturers sets, but not all, include the ATSC cable HD 1080 digital
modes in their built-in tuners.

WA8NVW

>>> This article:
>>> http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2008/02/02/2008-02-02_low_blow_f...
>>> claims that a special antenna is needed to get HDTV (over the air, as
>>> opposed to cable/sat box.)

>> http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/types.html

>> "HDTV Antennas"
>> "An antenna made for analog TV will work fine for DTV.
>> There is nothing different about an antenna for DTV or
>> HDTV. Unscrupulous people have labeled their antennas
>> 'HDTV Antennas' as a marketing ploy. The honest antenna
>> makers have had to re-label their products likewise to
>> avoid losing sales."

> There aren't any VHF digital TV signals. If one lives any distance from a
> station transmitting in HD or SD, it is necessary to have an antenna with
> plenty of UHF gain. Eleven UHF elements, RG-6 feedline and an indoor,
> variable gain preamp give me twenty or so digital channels from my local
> area and from the Pittsburgh area. This works for my living room Hi-Def
> set or for the HD PCI card in the computer near the hamshack.

> Dave K8MN

by **Jimmie** » Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:54:16

>> This article:
>> http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2008/02/02/2008-02-02_low_blow_f...
>> claims that a special antenna is needed to get HDTV (over the air, as
>> opposed to cable/sat box.)

> http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/types.html

> "HDTV Antennas"
> "An antenna made for analog TV will work fine for DTV.
> There is nothing different about an antenna for DTV or
> HDTV. Unscrupulous people have labeled their antennas
> 'HDTV Antennas' as a marketing ploy. The honest antenna
> makers have had to re-label their products likewise to
> avoid losing sales."
> --
> 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Remember COLOR TV antennas

Jimmie

Red Wave Radio

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