Only slightly OT (but mildly interesting): Strange propagation

Only slightly OT (but mildly interesting): Strange propagation

Post by J. Harve » Tue, 14 May 2002 05:13:36

Last evening, my wife was listening to a US FM station (WVLF) as is her
habit, thereby bypassing the 'cultural' protectionism of our much-hated,
overly-stupid, Cape Breton fiddle music promoting, CRTC.

The US FM signal was somewhat below normal quality and something was up
(propagation-wise).  So, trying to be helpful, I turned on my V/UHF scanner
and dialed in the proper frequency (96.1 MHz) and (to my mild amazement), I
was listening to a different station.

She was listening to 96.1 MHz and hearing WVLF (not perfectly, but not bad
either) on her Sony portable stereo.

I was listening 96.1 MHz and was hearing some other station (very clear) on
my V/UHF scanner.

The radios (and their respective whip antennas) are only about 4 feet apart.

I realize that it is all perfectly explanable though FM capture effect and
nulls, but it is startling to witness nevertheless.

 
 
 

Only slightly OT (but mildly interesting): Strange propagation

Post by Richard Clar » Tue, 14 May 2002 05:37:31


On Sun, 12 May 2002 16:13:36 -0400, "J. Harvey"


>Last evening, my wife was listening to a US FM station (WVLF) as is her
>habit, thereby bypassing the 'cultural' protectionism of our much-hated,
>overly-stupid, Cape Breton fiddle music promoting, CRTC.

>The US FM signal was somewhat below normal quality and something was up
>(propagation-wise).  So, trying to be helpful, I turned on my V/UHF scanner
>and dialed in the proper frequency (96.1 MHz) and (to my mild amazement), I
>was listening to a different station.

>She was listening to 96.1 MHz and hearing WVLF (not perfectly, but not bad
>either) on her Sony portable stereo.

>I was listening 96.1 MHz and was hearing some other station (very clear) on
>my V/UHF scanner.

>The radios (and their respective whip antennas) are only about 4 feet apart.

>I realize that it is all perfectly explanable though FM capture effect and
>nulls, but it is startling to witness nevertheless.

Hi OM,

Tropospheric ducting should be coming up as spring progresses toward
summer, or at least to my experience of one summer some many years ago
when I was a lad in Colorado watching TV.

Being interested in getting the channels in Denver, some 60 miles
distant, I set up an outdoor antenna (our house had a relatively high
location out and away from the Rockies and the front range).  Being
pointed north (from Colorado Springs) I was surprised to see on an
off-channel (at the low end, channel 2 or 3, maybe as high as 7)
transmission from Calgary!  Each transmission was perfectly clear with
a marked transition at the beginning and end.

This was isolated, to be sure, but not without some repeat offerings
that allowed me to see an entire movie (dialing for dollars - eh -
loonies) and then that replaced by another transmission from Edmonton!

Oh joy of unbounded transport for the young DXer!

Thanx for your earlier mail.  Who would have thought such opportunity
would offer itself?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

 
 
 

Only slightly OT (but mildly interesting): Strange propagation

Post by dnb » Tue, 14 May 2002 09:55:52

Which reminds me of gettng up one Saturday morning as a kid, flipping on the
cartoons, and seeing the usual Warner Bros. - but completely in Spanish!
This was with the old-style TV where the tuning knob was continously
variable.  I was on channel 5 instead of the local channel 6.

Talk about being freaked out.  Propagation from Mexico to the midwest and
clear as a bell.

Quote:> Being interested in getting the channels in Denver, some 60 miles
> distant, I set up an outdoor antenna (our house had a relatively high
> location out and away from the Rockies and the front range).  Being
> pointed north (from Colorado Springs) I was surprised to see on an
> off-channel (at the low end, channel 2 or 3, maybe as high as 7)
> transmission from Calgary!  Each transmission was perfectly clear with
> a marked transition at the beginning and end.

> This was isolated, to be sure, but not without some repeat offerings
> that allowed me to see an entire movie (dialing for dollars - eh -
> loonies) and then that replaced by another transmission from Edmonton!

> Oh joy of unbounded transport for the young DXer!

> Thanx for your earlier mail.  Who would have thought such opportunity
> would offer itself?

> 73's
> Richard Clark, KB7QHC

 
 
 

Only slightly OT (but mildly interesting): Strange propagation

Post by CAM » Tue, 14 May 2002 11:15:27


> Which reminds me of gettng up one Saturday morning as a kid, flipping on the
> cartoons, and seeing the usual Warner Bros. - but completely in Spanish!
> This was with the old-style TV where the tuning knob was continously
> variable.  I was on channel 5 instead of the local channel 6.

I'll never forget the time something was interfering with our reception
of Channel 2 from Houston. I turned the antenna around and Greenbay,
Wisconsin came in clear as a bell in East Texas.
--
cheers, CAM   http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Only slightly OT (but mildly interesting): Strange propagation

Post by Heinz W. Wiggesho » Tue, 14 May 2002 13:41:55


> Last evening, my wife was listening to a US FM station (WVLF) as is her
> habit, thereby bypassing the 'cultural' protectionism of our much-hated,
> overly-stupid, Cape Breton fiddle music promoting, CRTC.

  Even on CBC Radio Two ("Classics and Beyond") Disk Drive program.
  Man, if I wanted to go back to Don Messer and his Jubilees (IIRC),
  I'd raid the CBC vaults for those cat torturers.
Quote:

> The US FM signal was somewhat below normal quality and something was up
> (propagation-wise).

...

  FM can be really ***!  One summer day, I was driving from Ottawa to
  Sudbury on Hwy 17, and about mid-trip, the FM car radio got a station
  from <mumble> near the Gulf of Mexico and the Mississippi River!
  Couldn't get Ottawa or Sudbury, though.

 
 
 

Only slightly OT (but mildly interesting): Strange propagation

Post by Bill Turne » Tue, 14 May 2002 14:35:19

On Sun, 12 May 2002 16:13:36 -0400, "J. Harvey"


>The radios (and their respective whip antennas) are only about 4 feet apart.

>I realize that it is all perfectly explanable though FM capture effect and
>nulls, but it is startling to witness nevertheless.

_________________________________________________________

That is interesting.  Did you try moving the radios around?  

You said whip antennas - were they both similar?  Both vertical?

Bill, W7TI

 
 
 

Only slightly OT (but mildly interesting): Strange propagation

Post by J. Harve » Tue, 14 May 2002 22:08:13

 "J. Harvey"

Quote:> The radios (and their respective whip antennas) are only
> about 4 feet apart.  I realize that it is all perfectly explanable
> though FM capture effect and nulls, but it is startling to witness
> nevertheless.

"Bill Turner" asked

Quote:> That is interesting.  Did you try moving the radios around?

No.  I did turn the scanner whip from vertical to horizontal (see below).

Quote:> You said whip antennas - were they both similar?
> Both vertical?

The wife's Sony is a typical portable AM/FM/Cassette/CD stereo; the sort
that might cost about US$59.  It has a normal adjustable (but kept
more-or-less vertical) whip.  This radio is on a shelf about 4 or 5 feet
from the window.

The scanner is a RS PRO-2004.  A short coax leads up to a BNC whip stuck to
the inside of the apartment window with a suction cup BNC thingy.  That
antenna was also vertical but got twisted around during the event.  It's
orientation didn't make any difference.

The antennas are more or less identical 24" whips, the only difference was
the positioning relative to the window.

 
 
 

Only slightly OT (but mildly interesting): Strange propagation

Post by Bill Turne » Tue, 14 May 2002 22:16:55

On Mon, 13 May 2002 09:08:13 -0400, "J. Harvey"


>The antennas are more or less identical 24" whips, the only difference was
>the positioning relative to the window.

_________________________________________________________

One other question I should have asked before:  Was there fading between
the two radios?  In other words, did they sometimes pick up the same
station and then one or both of them switch to the other?  Or was it
constant?

Bill, W7TI

 
 
 

Only slightly OT (but mildly interesting): Strange propagation

Post by J. Harve » Tue, 14 May 2002 22:27:25

"Bill Turner"

Quote:> One other question I should have asked before:  Was there
> fading between the two radios?  In other words, did they
> sometimes pick up the same station and then one or both
> of them switch to the other?  Or was it constant?

The stations were steady on their respective radios for at least the several
minutes that I had available.

After several minutes, I had to abandon the event since my scanner was not
helping my wife's music and the 4-year old was starting to toss expensive
home theatre equipment out of the living room window (slight exageration,
but you get the picture...).

I assume that everything went 'back to normal' (propagation wise) within a
few minutes.  It was too weird to last...

[For those that missed the start of the thread, the event under discussion
was two FM radios on the same frequency (96.1 MHz) picking up two different
FM stations - their respective whip antennas were only about 4 or 5 feet
apart.]

 
 
 

Only slightly OT (but mildly interesting): Strange propagation

Post by M1nn0 » Wed, 15 May 2002 01:53:34

Quote:

>  FM can be really ***!  One summer day, I was driving from Ottawa to
>  Sudbury on Hwy 17, and about mid-trip, the FM car radio got a station
>  from <mumble> near the Gulf of Mexico and the Mississippi River!
>  Couldn't get Ottawa or Sudbury, though.

This occurs occasionally in the area Between North Bay and Sturgeon Falls
and is due,
as anyone knows, to the large creatures (Nippies) living in Lake Nippising.
Something on the order
of Electric Eels, these large (I've  heard 60 to 70 feet long) creatures are
said to communicate with other creatures
of their kind by allowing their tails to protrude out of the lake while
joining dorsal fins and sending electromagnetic
pulses into the surrounding atmosphere.  The resulting large Electromagnetic
field creates a Ducting phenomena
causing signals from great distances to be heard whilst drowning out the
locals.   It is said that if one stops at the
Scenic lookout along Rte 17 in the late evening and the lake is very still
you can see the blue aura on the water in the middle distance.

SORRY ... I don't know what came over me but I couldn't resist :)

John (WB2TQC)

 
 
 

Only slightly OT (but mildly interesting): Strange propagation

Post by Peter O. Bracket » Wed, 15 May 2002 11:17:18

Jeff:  What's *wrong* with Cape Breton fiddle music, eh?  --Peter


Quote:> Last evening, my wife was listening to a US FM station (WVLF) as is her
> habit, thereby bypassing the 'cultural' protectionism of our much-hated,
> overly-stupid, Cape Breton fiddle music promoting, CRTC.

> The US FM signal was somewhat below normal quality and something was up
> (propagation-wise).  So, trying to be helpful, I turned on my V/UHF
scanner
> and dialed in the proper frequency (96.1 MHz) and (to my mild amazement),
I
> was listening to a different station.

> She was listening to 96.1 MHz and hearing WVLF (not perfectly, but not bad
> either) on her Sony portable stereo.

> I was listening 96.1 MHz and was hearing some other station (very clear)
on
> my V/UHF scanner.

> The radios (and their respective whip antennas) are only about 4 feet
apart.

> I realize that it is all perfectly explanable though FM capture effect and
> nulls, but it is startling to witness nevertheless.

 
 
 

Only slightly OT (but mildly interesting): Strange propagation

Post by Glenn Ziolkows » Wed, 15 May 2002 11:53:24

On Mon, 13 May 2002 09:27:25 -0400, "J. Harvey"


>"Bill Turner"
>> One other question I should have asked before:  Was there
>> fading between the two radios?  In other words, did they
>> sometimes pick up the same station and then one or both
>> of them switch to the other?  Or was it constant?

>The stations were steady on their respective radios for at least the
several
>minutes that I had available.

>After several minutes, I had to abandon the event since my scanner
was not
>helping my wife's music and the 4-year old was starting to toss
expensive
>home theatre equipment out of the living room window (slight
exageration,
>but you get the picture...).

>I assume that everything went 'back to normal' (propagation wise)
within a
>few minutes.  It was too weird to last...

>[For those that missed the start of the thread, the event under
discussion
>was two FM radios on the same frequency (96.1 MHz) picking up two
different
>FM stations - their respective whip antennas were only about 4 or 5
feet
>apart.]

Reminds me of experiencing some enhanced propagation with a Bearcat
BC-210 on the NOAA WX frequencies. WIth the screw-in whip antenna, I
was able to determine there was a distant station underneath the local
one. I happened to move the radio a few inches and the DX station
popped in. After experimenting further, I discovered rotating the
radio in various planes would result in other DX stations popping in.
On more than one occasion, I heard four different stations on the same
frequency just by holding and rotating the radio in different
directions.

Must have looked pretty funny, holding the radio upside down to hear a
DX NOAA station.
Glenn
remove .invalid from e-mail address when replying

 
 
 

Only slightly OT (but mildly interesting): Strange propagation

Post by Heinz W. Wiggesho » Wed, 15 May 2002 12:22:51


> This occurs occasionally in the area Between North Bay and Sturgeon Falls
> and is due,
> as anyone knows, to the large creatures (Nippies) living in Lake Nippising.
...
>   It is said that if one stops at the
> Scenic lookout along Rte 17 in the late evening and the lake is very still
> you can see the blue aura on the water in the middle distance.

  I know that lookout well - but I rarely stop there.  After 14 red lights
  on the North Bay "bypass", I set the cruise at the speed limit + 11% and
  whiz by.  After reading the post about the monsters, now I'm too scared
  to stop, (barring an urgent call of nature).

  During my youth near Sudbury, I would spend hours at night listening to
  AM and various shortwave bands at night.  The Sudbury Basin was formed
  by a huge meteor impact which deposited massive nickel, copper, iron ores,
  some platinum group, a soupcon of gold and _sulfur_.  My dad told me that
  it was the ore body that cased such good reception.  Since he's passed
  on, I can't ask him if he was kidding.  The only reception here in Ottawa
  lately is the goddam hockey playoffs.  

 
 
 

Only slightly OT (but mildly interesting): Strange propagation

Post by Heinz W. Wiggesho » Wed, 15 May 2002 12:26:16


Quote:> Jeff:  What's *wrong* with Cape Breton fiddle music, eh?  --Peter

  Absolutely _nothing_ - provided it stays there!
 
 
 

Only slightly OT (but mildly interesting): Strange propagation

Post by Peter O. Bracket » Wed, 15 May 2002 20:06:44

Heinz:

[snip]



> > Jeff:  What's *wrong* with Cape Breton fiddle music, eh?  --Peter

>   Absolutely _nothing_ - provided it stays there!

[snip]

Hmmm... well many others would then travel there to hear it.  For
instance...

Alexander Graham Bell just loved it!  He loved it so much that he built his
summer home there.

Best,

--Peter K1PO, Indialantic by-the-Sea, FL.