N3CVJ denies failures, while Presidential Commission admits failures.

N3CVJ denies failures, while Presidential Commission admits failures.

Post by I AmnotGeorgeBu » Wed, 25 May 2005 23:37:09

 How many links do you need, Dave?

Here are a few more, just to keep you entertained.

From the Times wires:

Before the Iraq invasion, the Bush administration asserted that Iraq
possessed chemical and biological weapons and was developing nuclear
weapons. Officials also allege Iraq was working on prohibited long-range
missiles and drones that could disperse biological agents. The
presidential intelligene commison examined each of the US intelligence
community's prewar assertions on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and
reached these conclusions:

Nuclear Weapons: Wrong
 Analysts wrongly interpreted the purpose of some metal tubes Iraq tried
to import, arguing they were for centrifuges to enrich uranium when they
were for conventional artillery rockets. Other imports of materials with
more than one potential use were also similarily misinterpreted.

Biological Weapons: Wrong
Agencies trusted several Iraqi defectors who were lying, ignoring
inconsistencies in their statements and other warning signs that these
defectors were providing false information.

Chemical Weapons: WRONG
The intelligence committe drew its conclusions
from satellite photos of trucks and buildings and other sources that
were suspicious but ultimately ambiguous, and trusted human sources who
made claims that Hussein had accomplished things that are technically
impossiible.

WMD-Armed Drones: Wrong
Analysts concluded the drones were for WMD based on limited information;
Iraq;s drones turned out to be for reconnaissance.

Hussein's Intentions: Wrong
Intelligence agencies did not seriously consider Hussein could have
given up his WMD ambitions and destroyed his stockpiles. Although
several intel sources asserted before the war that Iraq did not have any
WMD, US analysts have regarded this as disinformation.

End of Times wire report.
--
Want more, Dave? The list is endless but these should have you spinning
your wheels a bit more than usual since your first knee-jerk reaction
was to deny any Bush failures, then
beg for examples.

 
 
 

N3CVJ denies failures, while Presidential Commission admits failures.

Post by Dave Hal » Thu, 26 May 2005 02:08:22




> How many links do you need, Dave?

Just one good and accurate one would be nice, but you haven't posted
any. Just snippets of your own out of context interpretations of some
biased, agenda-driven news report.

Post the whole link, you know, something that begins with "http://",
so we can all read it.

Dave
"Sandbagger"

 
 
 

N3CVJ denies failures, while Presidential Commission admits failures.

Post by jame » Thu, 26 May 2005 03:30:56





>> How many links do you need, Dave?

>Just one good and accurate one would be nice, but you haven't posted
>any. Just snippets of your own out of context interpretations of some
>biased, agenda-driven news report.

>Post the whole link, you know, something that begins with "http://",
>so we can all read it.

>Dave
>"Sandbagger"

*********

try this link.

http://www.unmovic.org/

It is gives all the reporrtts to present of the "on goning
inspections"

This is the link to the UN Security Council Working Document as
presented to the UN Security Council on Mach 3 of 2003. Please pay
attention to Annex 2. It is quite revealing. It in fact shows how well
the UNSCOM inpsections were working prior to being booted out in 1998.

http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/new/documents/draft_work_programme.pdf

We may never know how much there really was or how much was destroyed.
But it is now becoming a foregone conclusions that the large
potentials that Colin Powell claimed in his Power Point Presentation
on Feb. 5, 2003 are at best in retrospect worst case analysis. Did
this administration inflate the potentials of WMD? Maybe not, but they
did harp extensively on the worst case potentials. As time has shown
the reality is that either Saddam destroyed alot just before the
invasion or there never were the large stock piles of WMD that Bush
and company had envisioned.

There are more links. You can also start at www.fas.org. Look not for
just what supports ones belief but look at all the facts presented. In
between the two extremes will really lie the truth. IF you start to
dig further into the past, you may starrtt to derive some other
conclusions. I came to an understanding in late 2002 that Iraq and any
invasion was not about WMD or OIL. It is far more deeper. The true
paranoia that this administration has is a great fear of a large
Islamic state existing from Pakistan to Syria. Including Iran, Iraq,
Saudia Arabia and a few others.

Just think what if Radical Islam controled over half the oil
production in the world?

james

 
 
 

N3CVJ denies failures, while Presidential Commission admits failures.

Post by Jim Hampto » Thu, 26 May 2005 09:12:35




> > How many links do you need, Dave?

> Just one good and accurate one would be nice, but you haven't posted
> any. Just snippets of your own out of context interpretations of some
> biased, agenda-driven news report.

> Post the whole link, you know, something that begins with "http://",
> so we can all read it.

> Dave
> "Sandbagger"

Hello, Dave

Since being in contact with a few friends who are so severely on the extreme
right, I have found the best way to get news is *outside* of the United
States.  Whatever article is written here, it is dismissed as work of the
demonic liberal left.

I have found the U.K., Canada, and Australia to be pretty nifty places.  Of
course, the world is just loaded with the liberal left ... :))

Hitler did a pretty good job convincing his people as to what was right and
wrong.

I am not so easily persuaded.

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim

 
 
 

N3CVJ denies failures, while Presidential Commission admits failures.

Post by Jim Hampto » Thu, 26 May 2005 09:25:28




> > How many links do you need, Dave?

> Just one good and accurate one would be nice, but you haven't posted
> any. Just snippets of your own out of context interpretations of some
> biased, agenda-driven news report.

> Post the whole link, you know, something that begins with "http://",
> so we can all read it.

> Dave
> "Sandbagger"

Hello, Dave

I ranted a bit about our deficit and economy.  We know many jobs went to
Mexico and now to China.

Yep, we are the real technocracy leaders.  Guess who launched Direct TV's
new satellite?  Perhaps I should send you a link:
http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish/proton_directv8.html?2352005

Really reassuring, isn't it.

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim

 
 
 

N3CVJ denies failures, while Presidential Commission admits failures.

Post by John Smit » Thu, 26 May 2005 09:20:48

Jim:

You hit on the heart of the matter there, don't count on getting any news
which is accurate, unbiased or of assistance to the American public...
either threats or bribes control the news...  but it ain't good...

Warmest regards,
John






>> > How many links do you need, Dave?

>> Just one good and accurate one would be nice, but you haven't posted
>> any. Just snippets of your own out of context interpretations of some
>> biased, agenda-driven news report.

>> Post the whole link, you know, something that begins with "http://",
>> so we can all read it.

>> Dave
>> "Sandbagger"

> Hello, Dave

> Since being in contact with a few friends who are so severely on the
> extreme
> right, I have found the best way to get news is *outside* of the United
> States.  Whatever article is written here, it is dismissed as work of the
> demonic liberal left.

> I have found the U.K., Canada, and Australia to be pretty nifty places.
> Of
> course, the world is just loaded with the liberal left ... :))

> Hitler did a pretty good job convincing his people as to what was right
> and
> wrong.

> I am not so easily persuaded.

> 73 from Rochester, NY
> Jim

 
 
 

N3CVJ denies failures, while Presidential Commission admits failures.

Post by Landshar » Thu, 26 May 2005 14:08:07






>> > How many links do you need, Dave?

>> Just one good and accurate one would be nice, but you haven't posted
>> any. Just snippets of your own out of context interpretations of some
>> biased, agenda-driven news report.

>> Post the whole link, you know, something that begins with "http://",
>> so we can all read it.

>> Dave
>> "Sandbagger"

> Hello, Dave

> Since being in contact with a few friends who are so severely on the
> extreme
> right, I have found the best way to get news is *outside* of the United
> States.  Whatever article is written here, it is dismissed as work of the
> demonic liberal left.

> I have found the U.K.

I kind of prefer the BBC, much netter than the slanted
US new networks.

Quote:>, Canada, and Australia to be pretty nifty places.  Of
> course, the world is just loaded with the liberal left ... :))

> Hitler did a pretty good job convincing his people as to what was right
> and
> wrong.

> I am not so easily persuaded.

Agreed, but you are comparing Apples to rotten oranges ;)

        Landshark

--
The world is good-natured to people
who are good natured.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> 73 from Rochester, NY
> Jim

 
 
 

N3CVJ denies failures, while Presidential Commission admits failures.

Post by Dave Hal » Thu, 26 May 2005 20:45:33


>There are more links. You can also start at www.fas.org. Look not for
>just what supports ones belief but look at all the facts presented. In
>between the two extremes will really lie the truth. IF you start to
>dig further into the past, you may starrtt to derive some other
>conclusions. I came to an understanding in late 2002 that Iraq and any
>invasion was not about WMD or OIL. It is far more deeper. The true
>paranoia that this administration has is a great fear of a large
>Islamic state existing from Pakistan to Syria. Including Iran, Iraq,
>Saudia Arabia and a few others.

That would not be a good thing, and our efforts in trying to prevent
it from happening is probably a good thing.

Quote:>Just think what if Radical Islam controlled over half the oil
>production in the world?

So if that is the case, are we not justified in trying to prevent it
from happening?

Do we have to wait until the "west" (Which includes more than just the
U.S,) is brought to its knees economically before we act?

How much ***shed could have been averted if Hitler had been taken
out of the picture in the 1920's?

Does the average citizen need to know, or have the capacity to
understand, the complete truth assuming we can definitively identify
it amongst all the free flowing propaganda?

Dave
"Sandbagger"

 
 
 

N3CVJ denies failures, while Presidential Commission admits failures.

Post by Dave Hal » Thu, 26 May 2005 21:09:54

On Wed, 25 May 2005 00:12:35 GMT, "Jim Hampton"






>> > How many links do you need, Dave?

>> Just one good and accurate one would be nice, but you haven't posted
>> any. Just snippets of your own out of context interpretations of some
>> biased, agenda-driven news report.

>> Post the whole link, you know, something that begins with "http://",
>> so we can all read it.

>> Dave
>> "Sandbagger"

>Hello, Dave

>Since being in contact with a few friends who are so severely on the extreme
>right, I have found the best way to get news is *outside* of the United
>States.  Whatever article is written here, it is dismissed as work of the
>demonic liberal left.

There is a great deal of truth in that. The major news media has been
infiltrated, as have much of academia, with the followers of left
leaning politics. This has been going on in ernest since the 60's and
the Vietnam war, when it was realized that the only way for a small
political minority to win their objective of large scale governmental
reform, was from within through slow, careful indoctrination and
propaganda. The two best places to achieve that goal are in the
agencies which bring us the news, and the institutions which educate
our impressionable young.

It had been working fairly well, until the advent of the internet,
talk radio, and independent news services such as Fox News. The
ability to cross check the news and parse out the spin, essentially
put the spotlight on the mainstream news media, and people like Dan
Rather and Jayson Blair. Exposure of such radical leftists in teaching
roles such as Ward Churchill, and countless others, is slowly
revealing the true intentions of these seemingly unconnected (except
for ideology) people. The rise of conservative groups and watchdog
organizations to balance the prejudice of the left on university
campuses, will hopefully slow and eventually correct much of the
damage that the left has done in the last 30 years.

Quote:>I have found the U.K., Canada, and Australia to be pretty nifty places.  Of
>course, the world is just loaded with the liberal left ... :))

You have to understand that in much of the world, especially in the
socialist-leaning countries like France and Germany, there is a
decidedly anti-capitalist, anti-US slant. So if you think you will get
an objective news piece from any of  them, you are seriously naive. As
for the U.K., Canada, and Australia, they are more balanced but
depending on which factions are backing the "news", you could be
reading either left or right wing slant. It helps to dig deeply into
who backs these groups in order to determine just how "objective" they
may or may not be.

Quote:>Hitler did a pretty good job convincing his people as to what was right and
>wrong.

Yes, and just like Hitler blamed all or most of Germany's problems on
the Jews, so to are the operatives on the left trying to blame most of
America's problems on rich, God respecting, white people.

Quote:>I am not so easily persuaded.

Neither am I.

Dave
"Sandbagger"

 
 
 

N3CVJ denies failures, while Presidential Commission admits failures.

Post by Dave Hal » Thu, 26 May 2005 21:12:20

On Wed, 25 May 2005 00:25:28 GMT, "Jim Hampton"






>> > How many links do you need, Dave?

>> Just one good and accurate one would be nice, but you haven't posted
>> any. Just snippets of your own out of context interpretations of some
>> biased, agenda-driven news report.

>> Post the whole link, you know, something that begins with "http://",
>> so we can all read it.

>> Dave
>> "Sandbagger"

>Hello, Dave

>I ranted a bit about our deficit and economy.  We know many jobs went to
>Mexico and now to China.

>Yep, we are the real technocracy leaders.  Guess who launched Direct TV's
>new satellite?  Perhaps I should send you a link:
>http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish/proton_directv8.html?2352005

>Really reassuring, isn't it.

Outsourcing is inevitable until the standard of living in the rest of
the world equalizes with our own.

It's not good news for us, but it's an unfortunate reality.

Dave
"Sandbagger"

 
 
 

N3CVJ denies failures, while Presidential Commission admits failures.

Post by I AmnotGeorgeBu » Fri, 27 May 2005 00:05:45






How many links do you need, Dave?

Quote:>Just one good and accurate one would be
>nice, but you haven't posted any.

You've been given several and like it has been correctly observed, you
dismiss all of them as a *** of the left.

Quote:>Just snippets of your own out of context
>interpretations of some biased, agenda-driven
>news report.

There were no interpretations, only cut and pastes, but the content so
vehemently opposed what you say, it is perfectly understandable that
soneone of your intellect level would take such as being rewritten in
order to preserve your almost always wrong positions.

Quote:>Post the whole link, you know, something that
>begins with "http://", so we can all read it.

I already did. Your***poor memory is stringing you along and forcing
you to wear the "kick me" sign again.

Quote:>David T. Hall Jr.
>"Sandbagger"
>N3CVJ

(Hello, Dave
Since being in contact with a few friends who are so severely on the
extreme right, I have found the best way to get news is *outside* of the
United States. Whatever article is written here, it is dismissed as work
of the demonic liberal left.)

Quote:>There is a great deal of truth in that.

Yep,,and it's you doing all the dismissing.

Quote:>The major news media has been infiltrated, as
>have much of academia,

And the WH merely makes up junk and presents it as news, an issue you
know you can not touch, as it defeats your position and ilustrates your
hypocrisy, as you accept such behavior when commited by your party.
Frank defeated your position and illustrated your hypocrisy by astutely
showing several key areas where you refuse to apply your own set of
standards when the outcome is not favorable to your personal views.

Quote:>with the followers of left leaning politics. This
>has been going on in ernest since the 60's and
>the Vietnam war, when it was realized that the
>only way for a small political minority to win
>their objective of large scale governmental
>reform, was from within through slow, careful
>indoctrination and propaganda.

That was called "Trcikle down" and it failed miserably.

Quote:>The two best places to achieve that goal are in
>the agencies which bring us the news, and the
>institutions which educate our impressionable
>young.

LMAO,,,now you have a problem with the educational system in that they
have a secret agenda with "indoctrination of the young" and
"propaganda". You should write for Dr. Who, but onlyafter you go to
college and learn a few things.

Quote:>It had been working fairly well,

For example...

Quote:>until the advent
>of the internet, talk radio, and independent
>news services such as Fox News.

Bullshit. Reagan was elected for eight years during that time span,
illustrating just the opposite of your warblings.

Quote:>The ability to cross check the news and parse
>out the spin, essentially put the spotlight on
>the mainstream news media, and people like
>Dan Rather and Jayson Blair.

But those WH deliberate false press releases
are perfectly acceptable. What a card!

Quote:> Exposure of such radical leftists in teaching
>roles such as Ward Churchill,

Or Tom Delay on the right.

Quote:> and countless others,

.like the majority.

Quote:>is slowly revealing the true intentions of these
>seemingly unconnected (except for ideology)
>people.

Hahaha....watch the little green men, Dave, when you're out there.

Quote:> The rise of conservative groups and
>watchdog organizations to balance the
>prejudice of the left on university campuses,
>will hopefully slow and eventually correct
>much of the damage that the left has done in
>the last 30 years.

You're just sore because the filibuster wasn't done away with,
illustrating you are at war with the laws and safety nets the government
put in place to protect the majority from angry radical loonies like
yourself.

(I have found the U.K., Canada, and Australia
to be pretty nifty places.)

Quote:> Of course, the world
>is just loaded with the liberal left ... :))

People with paranoia issues tend to feel like everyone else is against
them.

Quote:>You have to understand that in much of the
>world, especially in the socialist-leaning
>countries like France and Germany, there is a
>decidedly anti-capitalist, anti-US slant.

Bush made it that way. In addition, in countries around the world, it is
extremely unsafe for Americans to travel abroad. It was never like that
until Bush took office and the only thing he made safer was the bet that
he was going to take this country into debt and get a bunch of our
people killed for reasons that even you can't seem to place in proper
context.

Quote:>So if you think you will get an objective news
>piece from any of them, you are seriously
>naive.

There's that arrogance. No Dave, I am fairly comfortable when I say the
majority would claim Jimbo, at almost 20 years your senior,
is not naive in the ways of the world and their news. In fact, I would
hedge that his experience abroad in the military exposed him to much
more than yourself regarding worldwide knowledge and news, and
therefore, it is your claim, if any, that is "naive".
You again are claiming the news is biased to the left. Since the news is
all biased to the left, (you have been asked this before), what source
is it from which you get your misinformation?

Quote:>As for the U.K., Canada, and Australia, they
>are more balanced but depending on which
>factions are backing the "news", you could be
>reading either left or right wing slant.

LMAO,,you know jack shitt!!! Name two  "factions" for each.

Quote:>It helps to dig deeply into who backs these
>groups in order to determine just how
>"objective" they may or may not be.

And since you are talking shit again, you would have no problem
illustrating two factions for each..you know,,,since you had to "dig
deeply" for these factions.......

(Hitler did a pretty good job convincing his
people as to what was right and wrong. )

Quote:>Yes, and just like Hitler blamed all or most of
>Germany's problems on the Jews, so to are
>the operatives on the left trying to blame most
>of America's problems on rich, God
>respecting, white people.

Oh, but you have problems. You have always neatly presented you hold
other views (such as an American political party other than yours) in
contempt, but to publicly claim the democrats
are akin to nazis really illustrates your magnified ignorance. It is the
Bush admin that has paraphrased Stalin and invoked the exact same
rhetoric. When Bush-the-ignorant was informed that he paraphrased Stalin
in one of his speeches, he never repeated it again and that was the end
of it. The utterance? "You are either with us or against us". So now we
have YOUR party not only employing the rhetoric and behavior of those
oppressive ***ous thugs, but people like you telling any one who
dares illustrate the misdeeds of your party they are "naive".

(I am not so easily persuaded.)

Quote:>Neither am I.

You're not easily taught, either.
Quote:>David T. Hall Jr.
>"Sandbagger"
>N3CVJ

 
 
 

N3CVJ denies failures, while Presidential Commission admits failures.

Post by jame » Fri, 27 May 2005 00:37:52




>>There are more links. You can also start at www.fas.org. Look not for
>>just what supports ones belief but look at all the facts presented. In
>>between the two extremes will really lie the truth. IF you start to
>>dig further into the past, you may starrtt to derive some other
>>conclusions. I came to an understanding in late 2002 that Iraq and any
>>invasion was not about WMD or OIL. It is far more deeper. The true
>>paranoia that this administration has is a great fear of a large
>>Islamic state existing from Pakistan to Syria. Including Iran, Iraq,
>>Saudia Arabia and a few others.

>That would not be a good thing, and our efforts in trying to prevent
>it from happening is probably a good thing.

>>Just think what if Radical Islam controlled over half the oil
>>production in the world?

>So if that is the case, are we not justified in trying to prevent it
>from happening?

*****

No I think Iraq is means of gaining bases in a region that we can
better monitor and track the goings on of the Radical Islamic
Fundamentalist, both Shia and Suni.

Quote:>Do we have to wait until the "west" (Which includes more than just the
>U.S,) is brought to its knees economically before we act?

****

That is a tough decision. If you act to early on intelligence and it
is bad then you done things in bad faith. Wait to long and you have
dead people. The better question and also the most difficult to answer
is how many lives are expendable? If  none is your answer then Bush
did well.

Quote:>How much ***shed could have been averted if Hitler had been taken
>out of the picture in the 1920's?

*****

We can play that game back to Babylonian Kings of the third millenium
BC. That is really a poor argument. The case for preemption is just
that. In 2002 Bush never made a good case for preemption. Most of what
I conclude was never presented to teh world population. Yes the Senate
and the House knew of it, but the average American Public per se was
not kept informed of these potentials.

Quote:>Does the average citizen need to know, or have the capacity to
>understand, the complete truth assuming we can definitively identify
>it amongst all the free flowing propaganda?

********

Duh!  Last time I reviewed my civics and political science notes, I
thought the American People were the government. You may find it
acceptable to blindly follow your elected officials like those in
Hitler Germany! Son I have a great deal of intreped feelings when a
President says to me trust me I am keeping the best interests of the
American People at heart and then proceeds to beat around the bush, no
pun intended, trying to justify a preemptive invasion.

Hell yes the American People need to know. Secrecy is the death toll
of a democracy and a republican form of government. This
administrtation has been the most secret since Reagan's first term.
Then I look and see who is advising GW Bush and then it all become to
clearly now. Bush's advisors are out of the Cold War Era and need an
enemy. I wonder if there is not one then have they created one?

james