Has anyone else heard/done this ??

Has anyone else heard/done this ??

Post by Reticul » Sat, 26 Jan 2002 09:05:30

Greetings,

     Bit off-topic maybe. Has anyone here have any knowledge
or experience with the following?

     I've heard you can take any of the Ameritron's running the
811's and do a direct swap for 572B's. The 600W goes to 800W
and the 800W goes to 1000W , no other mods needed, no muss,
no fuss. Sounds nice as I'm considering getting an Ameritron in
march, but money is an issue. Most Ameritrons are running about
1.00 to 1.75 per Watt, so I'd like to know if this is true.

         TIA,

                  KG4JBM/ Andrew

    Reticulum

Remove "your.hat" when replying via e-mail

 
 
 

Has anyone else heard/done this ??

Post by SA » Sat, 26 Jan 2002 10:20:42


Why would you even bother.  Its only a 1dB increase.  You can change your coax
to 9913 and probably get better results for less money, and improve your
receiver input to boot.
Quote:> I've heard you can take any of the Ameritron's running the
>811's and do a direct swap for 572B's. The 600W goes to 800W
>and the 800W goes to 1000W , no other mods needed, no muss,
>no fuss.

 
 
 

Has anyone else heard/done this ??

Post by Reticul » Sat, 26 Jan 2002 14:51:20


Quote:>Why would you even bother.  Its only a 1dB increase.  You can change your coax
>to 9913 and probably get better results for less money, and improve your
>receiver input to boot.

  Sam,

With respect,....

    You must not chase much DX or hang out very often on 75/80M
 or 160M. Do you really think that better coax is gonna break a massive
pile-up of rich old hams who can all afford Henry 3 or5 KW's ???

   If your point is to not forget the total system, I agree completely. I can
think of at least a dozen ways I could improve my shack. But if you're gonna
sit there and tell me that you worked Kingman's Reef  on 5 bands on your dad's
old 50W Lafayette rig ( or whatever) -- Give me a break. And if you're QRP,
see how many you get if you stop calling "QRP" before/after your callsign.
Likewise for Mobiles. They both succeed just as much by appeal to the DX's
ego as by the calling station's skill.

     If you have knowledge you can share about increasing signal strength
then I'd love to hear it. But this thread asks a specific question on amp.
mods. You're talking to the wrong person about any "debate" on the issue
of using linears. I'll take any advantage I can get. And in the world below
4.0MHz -- The more fire in the wire the better.

            73 de KG4JBM

    Reticulum

Remove "your.hat" when replying via e-mail

 
 
 

Has anyone else heard/done this ??

Post by Henry Kolesni » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 07:53:31

The 572 is capable of putting out more power but to do that you need to
supply it more power!
Remember that this is an amplifier and if you can load it to put out more
power it'll draw more from the power supply.
A little less than half the power will be used up in the plate resistance of
the tube and dissipated as heat and most of the rest can be loaded into the
antenna.  Some of the power will be dissipated as heat in the internal
resistance of the power supply.
So if you install 572 and try to load it more, the internal resistance (read
capability of the dc power supply) will be the limiting factor. Power output
is effiency times volts times amps.  I'll bet the that Ameritron didn't
leave any reserve in that power supply so you if your that set on it build
an outboard supply and put in the 572 and you'll get more power.  A 572 can
take 2400vdc on the plate and 600 watts whereas the 811 is rated for 1700vdc
at 270 watts.  The thought sounds good but it's too good to be true so I
agree with the previous response to buy better coax and that'll help on rx
as well.  Two other things you should consider is a good used Heathkit SB
200 or better yet Heathkit SB 220 with 3-500Z .  Both are very good amps and
very reasonably priced.  Drake L7 and L4 are also very good but cost a
little more.  If you have to have the power find a good Heathkit and you'll
be happy.


Quote:> Greetings,

>      Bit off-topic maybe. Has anyone here have any knowledge
> or experience with the following?

>      I've heard you can take any of the Ameritron's running the
> 811's and do a direct swap for 572B's. The 600W goes to 800W
> and the 800W goes to 1000W , no other mods needed, no muss,
> no fuss. Sounds nice as I'm considering getting an Ameritron in
> march, but money is an issue. Most Ameritrons are running about
> 1.00 to 1.75 per Watt, so I'd like to know if this is true.

>          TIA,

>                   KG4JBM/ Andrew

>     Reticulum

> Remove "your.hat" when replying via e-mail

 
 
 

Has anyone else heard/done this ??

Post by <spag.. » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 09:53:49

His point was obvious to me, why spend a lot of time and a fair amount of
money to modify a rig when there are lots of other ways to improve your
signal by 1dB which are far more simple.  You might argue that 1dB isn't
worth it and I would understand, but your flaming a knowledgable person over
a reasonable remark.

KI5XW



> >Why would you even bother.  Its only a 1dB increase.  You can change your
coax
> >to 9913 and probably get better results for less money, and improve your
> >receiver input to boot.

>   Sam,

> With respect,....

>     You must not chase much DX or hang out very often on 75/80M
>  or 160M. Do you really think that better coax is gonna break a massive
> pile-up of rich old hams who can all afford Henry 3 or5 KW's ???

>    If your point is to not forget the total system, I agree completely. I
can
> think of at least a dozen ways I could improve my shack. But if you're
gonna
> sit there and tell me that you worked Kingman's Reef  on 5 bands on your
dad's
> old 50W Lafayette rig ( or whatever) -- Give me a break. And if you're
QRP,
> see how many you get if you stop calling "QRP" before/after your callsign.
> Likewise for Mobiles. They both succeed just as much by appeal to the DX's
> ego as by the calling station's skill.

>      If you have knowledge you can share about increasing signal strength
> then I'd love to hear it. But this thread asks a specific question on amp.
> mods. You're talking to the wrong person about any "debate" on the issue
> of using linears. I'll take any advantage I can get. And in the world
below
> 4.0MHz -- The more fire in the wire the better.

>             73 de KG4JBM

>     Reticulum

> Remove "your.hat" when replying via e-mail

 
 
 

Has anyone else heard/done this ??

Post by Reticul » Mon, 28 Jan 2002 06:35:54



Quote:>The 572 is capable of putting out more power but to do that you need to
>supply it more power!
>Remember that this is an amplifier and if you can load it to put out more
>power it'll draw more from the power supply.
>A little less than half the power will be used up in the plate resistance of
>the tube and dissipated as heat and most of the rest can be loaded into the
>antenna.  Some of the power will be dissipated as heat in the internal
>resistance of the power supply.
>So if you install 572 and try to load it more, the internal resistance (read
>capability of the dc power supply) will be the limiting factor. Power output
>is effiency times volts times amps.  I'll bet the that Ameritron didn't
>leave any reserve in that power supply so you if your that set on it build
>an outboard supply and put in the 572 and you'll get more power.  A 572 can
>take 2400vdc on the plate and 600 watts whereas the 811 is rated for 1700vdc
>at 270 watts.  The thought sounds good but it's too good to be true so I
>agree with the previous response to buy better coax and that'll help on rx
>as well.  Two other things you should consider is a good used Heathkit SB
>200 or better yet Heathkit SB 220 with 3-500Z .  Both are very good amps and
>very reasonably priced.  Drake L7 and L4 are also very good but cost a
>little more.  If you have to have the power find a good Heathkit and you'll
>be happy.

>"

      Thx. for a great explanation. Sensible and to the point.

    Reticulum

Remove "your.hat" when replying via e-mail

 
 
 

Has anyone else heard/done this ??

Post by Reticul » Mon, 28 Jan 2002 06:52:11


>His point was obvious to me, why spend a lot of time and a fair amount of
>money to modify a rig when there are lots of other ways to improve your
>signal by 1dB which are far more simple.  You might argue that 1dB isn't
>worth it and I would understand, but your flaming a knowledgable person over
>a reasonable remark.

>KI5XW

        Actually, I thought he was the one trying to start a fight. Imagine if
you came on here and asked for the values of horse and buggy rides
and were told that the only answer is you ought to buy a car.  Whether
or not it's good advice, it doesn't answer the question, does it??  So it
 looked to me like he was the one picking a fight. I've been in many ng's
which are populated by those who wait for you to say , " X ", and then
challenge why you'd even want to know when " Y " is so much better
For them. It's a kinda ego-trip I guess;  a type of trolling. This is what I
thought Sam was doing.

    Reticulum

Remove "your.hat" when replying via e-mail

 
 
 

Has anyone else heard/done this ??

Post by .Your Friend Bil » Mon, 28 Jan 2002 07:42:54



> >His point was obvious to me, why spend a lot of time and a fair amount of
> >money to modify a rig when there are lots of other ways to improve your
> >signal by 1dB which are far more simple.  You might argue that 1dB isn't
> >worth it and I would understand, but your flaming a knowledgable person over
> >a reasonable remark.

> >KI5XW

>         Actually, I thought he was the one trying to start a fight. Imagine if
> you came on here and asked for the values of horse and buggy rides
> and were told that the only answer is you ought to buy a car.  Whether
> or not it's good advice, it doesn't answer the question, does it??  So it
>  looked to me like he was the one picking a fight. I've been in many ng's
> which are populated by those who wait for you to say , " X ", and then
> challenge why you'd even want to know when " Y " is so much better
> For them. It's a kinda ego-trip I guess;  a type of trolling. This is what I
> thought Sam was doing.

>     Reticulum

> Remove "your.hat" when replying via e-mail

I know SAM personally and you couldn't meet a nicer guy.  I can assure
you that his post wasn't laced with bad feelings or an attempt to incite
anything.  I too questioned myself the point of the expensive and
potentially troublesome "1db effort" when I read your original post
before he even replied.  Granted he didn't directly answer the question,
but he certainly addressed it and I think the point has since become
clear.
Newsgroup activity is not for the thin-skinned...I don't have to go too
far back into your posts to remind you of that.

Regards,
Bill WX4A

 
 
 

Has anyone else heard/done this ??

Post by SA » Mon, 28 Jan 2002 09:06:30

Quote:>You must not chase much DX or hang out very often on 75/80M
> or 160M.

I apologize for the tone of my response.  I was not trying to "pick a fight",
just replied on the fly and didn't have a lot of time to elaborate.  I figured
I'd make the point without a lot of unnecessary words.

Quote:>If you have knowledge you can share about increasing signal strength
>then I'd love to hear it.

That's what I was trying to do.  The fact is, regardless of whether you add 1
dB with an amp, or 1 dB with less feedline loss, its still 1 dB.  There is no
difference.  The 1 dB that you gain with the amp is not going to get you
through a pileup any better than the 1 dB you gain with less feedline loss.

Quote:>Do you really think that better coax is gonna break a massive
>pile-up of rich old hams who can all afford Henry 3 or5 KW's ???

Not any more that increasing your power from 600 watts to 800 watts will.

I don't run an amp here, but I don't feel any way about those who do, either. I
have worked a fair amount of DX with 100 watts and rarely am disappointed.
That's just the way I operate.  I never said anything bad about running power,
nor did I say anything about running QRP, Those were your thoughts, not mine.

Scott M.

 
 
 

Has anyone else heard/done this ??

Post by Reticul » Mon, 28 Jan 2002 12:38:05

Quote:>I know SAM personally and you couldn't meet a nicer guy.  I can assure
>you that his post wasn't laced with bad feelings or an attempt to incite
>anything.  I too questioned myself the point of the expensive and
>potentially troublesome "1db effort" when I read your original post
>before he even replied.  Granted he didn't directly answer the question,
>but he certainly addressed it and I think the point has since become
>clear.

        Point taken.

Quote:>Newsgroup activity is not for the thin-skinned...I don't have to go too
>far back into your posts to remind you of that.

>Regards,
>Bill WX4A

    Reticulum

Remove "your.hat" when replying via e-mail

 
 
 

Has anyone else heard/done this ??

Post by Al, N2NK » Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:51:22


>>You must not chase much DX or hang out very often on 75/80M
>> or 160M.

>I apologize for the tone of my response.  I was not trying to "pick a fight",
>just replied on the fly and didn't have a lot of time to elaborate.  I figured
>I'd make the point without a lot of unnecessary words.

>>If you have knowledge you can share about increasing signal strength
>>then I'd love to hear it.

>That's what I was trying to do.  The fact is, regardless of whether you add 1
>dB with an amp, or 1 dB with less feedline loss, its still 1 dB.  There is no
>difference.  The 1 dB that you gain with the amp is not going to get you
>through a pileup any better than the 1 dB you gain with less feedline loss.

>>Do you really think that better coax is gonna break a massive
>>pile-up of rich old hams who can all afford Henry 3 or5 KW's ???

>Not any more that increasing your power from 600 watts to 800 watts will.

>I don't run an amp here, but I don't feel any way about those who do, either. I
>have worked a fair amount of DX with 100 watts and rarely am disappointed.
>That's just the way I operate.  I never said anything bad about running power,
>nor did I say anything about running QRP, Those were your thoughts, not mine.

>Scott M.

Many folks (that do not subscribe to this NG) don't realize how important the feedline is.
Not to mention that a 1dB loss is a
direct hit to the receiver's noise figure, which cannot be made up with an amplifier.

Reminds me of a 2 meter repeater that was interfering with our HAM club's repeater.
The repeater's output was 100W, and the person responsible for it agreed to lower the
power by 3 dB.  But when we talked "watts", he said he could lower the power by 3 dB, but
refused to lower the power from 100W to 50W !  :-)
Al

 
 
 

Has anyone else heard/done this ??

Post by <spag.. » Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:23:20

I guess I can share that opinion...there is nothing more frustrating than to
ask advice and not get the answer you're looking for.

KI5XW



> >His point was obvious to me, why spend a lot of time and a fair amount of
> >money to modify a rig when there are lots of other ways to improve your
> >signal by 1dB which are far more simple.  You might argue that 1dB isn't
> >worth it and I would understand, but your flaming a knowledgable person
over
> >a reasonable remark.

> >KI5XW

>         Actually, I thought he was the one trying to start a fight.
Imagine if
> you came on here and asked for the values of horse and buggy rides
> and were told that the only answer is you ought to buy a car.  Whether
> or not it's good advice, it doesn't answer the question, does it??  So it
>  looked to me like he was the one picking a fight. I've been in many ng's
> which are populated by those who wait for you to say , " X ", and then
> challenge why you'd even want to know when " Y " is so much better
> For them. It's a kinda ego-trip I guess;  a type of trolling. This is what
I
> thought Sam was doing.

>     Reticulum

> Remove "your.hat" when replying via e-mail

 
 
 

Has anyone else heard/done this ??

Post by Henry Kolesni » Tue, 29 Jan 2002 00:41:31

so what are you going to do?



> >The 572 is capable of putting out more power but to do that you need to
> >supply it more power!
> >Remember that this is an amplifier and if you can load it to put out more
> >power it'll draw more from the power supply.
> >A little less than half the power will be used up in the plate resistance
of
> >the tube and dissipated as heat and most of the rest can be loaded into
the
> >antenna.  Some of the power will be dissipated as heat in the internal
> >resistance of the power supply.
> >So if you install 572 and try to load it more, the internal resistance
(read
> >capability of the dc power supply) will be the limiting factor. Power
output
> >is effiency times volts times amps.  I'll bet the that Ameritron didn't
> >leave any reserve in that power supply so you if your that set on it
build
> >an outboard supply and put in the 572 and you'll get more power.  A 572
can
> >take 2400vdc on the plate and 600 watts whereas the 811 is rated for
1700vdc
> >at 270 watts.  The thought sounds good but it's too good to be true so I
> >agree with the previous response to buy better coax and that'll help on
rx
> >as well.  Two other things you should consider is a good used Heathkit SB
> >200 or better yet Heathkit SB 220 with 3-500Z .  Both are very good amps
and
> >very reasonably priced.  Drake L7 and L4 are also very good but cost a
> >little more.  If you have to have the power find a good Heathkit and
you'll
> >be happy.

> >"

>       Thx. for a great explanation. Sensible and to the point.

>     Reticulum

> Remove "your.hat" when replying via e-mail

 
 
 

Has anyone else heard/done this ??

Post by Reticul » Tue, 29 Jan 2002 12:36:29

< lots of snip >

      So is everything OK ??

Don't want to be on the ng's shit-list. You've all been helpful
in the past. BTW, to those who asked,.... The answer to what
I plan to do is this:

       1. Buy the 9913
       2. Look for a better amp until,...
       3. I get the skills to build the ass-kickin'
           Rock-Crusher of my dreams with my own
           two hands. Maybe later this year or next.

             73 de KG4JBM

    Reticulum

Remove "your.hat" when replying via e-mail