Red Wave Radio

by **Soberano Republica de Ma** » Thu, 07 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Today a call was made to Tandy Company and Mrs. Angle, the purported writer of
the original email to the Scanshack.

I explained that I ran a website, mailinglist and other ventures that exposed
me to questions about this matter and wanted to confirm the issue.
Mrs. Angle stated;" email can be faked and without it I cannot verify it", a
copy was forwarded to her at her consent and a followup call confirmed her
receipt of same.

As of 5 PM EST a followup call was made to Mrs. Angle of Tandy legal
department; she was not available, Media Relations was not available for
comment either.

The items allegedly outlined by Tandy in the email were; the use of the title
Shack, which is claimed as protected by Tandy Company, confusion by users of
the web who find the Scanshack and could confuse it with Radio Shack and the
illegal modification of scanners to receive cellular frequencies, noted is the
fact that Tandy products are sold and used throughout the world and though FCC
rules are important, they are not applicable outside the US where restoration,
modification or reception of these frequencies are completely legal as is the
use of Tandy products so modified.

The issue of confusion by unknowing users could be clarified by the site
operator with a common disclaimer seen on website experiencing similar
situations.

The term or word shack has been used throughout human language :
shack (noun): first appeared:1878

[Probably back-formation from English dialect shackley rickety]

1: HUT, SHANTY

2: a room of similar enclosed structure for a particular person or use.

At this time Tandy has not replied in regard to the alleged email, the
ScanShack or these questions.

In the interest of impartiality we called Tandy three times and received no
comment on any of those calls, therefore we cannot confirm nor deny this
incident.

Provided below is the email sent to Mrs. Angle and the alleged email sent from
Tandy to the Scan Shack

We will attempt to answer our users questions and posts made to us about this
issue as best as possible.

Please do not deluge Tandy with calls or complaints unless justified.

Thank you,

Bill Ames
ScanPB

:============================

Subj: Email and my mailinglist- Bill Ames; Scan Palm Beach List
Date: 10/6/99 1:36:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Republica Maro

Christi Angle;

Hello, this is Bill Ames the person who just spoke with you today (06 Oct 99 at
1:20)

Just wanted to confirm the validity of this email that was sent to me by a
member of the maillist I maintain for Florida before I let users post it or
create a thread on this subject.

I just want to be as objective as possible with what is posted and always try
to verify information before it is forwarded.

email address and I was unable to verify this email or the subject through him,
therefore I felt it important to verify this item with you.

Thank you in advance for any assistance.

Should you have any further information it would be welcomed and posted
concerning this.

Please reply to:

Bill Ames via:

-------COPY OF EMAIL---------------

Subj: Use of our registered mark "SHACK"
Date: 10/5/99 3:43:33 PM Mountain Daylight Time

Tandy is concerned about your use of its "SHACK" registered mark as your
business name and internet site name. In the event that you were not aware,
you are hereby advised that Technology Properties, Inc. (TPI) owns numerous
federal registrations for its internationally recognized RADIOSHACK and
family of other SHACK marks for a wide variety of consumer products and
services, including scanners. Millions of dollars are spent annually by
Tandy, the exclusive licensee of TPI, advertising products and services
using these marks. the SHACK mark is of enormous value to TPI. Further
Tandy as a responsible company has worked hard with local, state and federal
legislators to ensure that proper use of scanners.
You site appears to be one devoted to information exchange leading to the
unauthorized modification of scanners for potentially illegal scanning.
Your use of our SHACK name and products on your site is no authorized by
anyone at Tandy. Your use of TPI's registered SHACK name as your site name
is likely to confuse the public into believing that is an affiliation
between you operation and Tandy's SHACK operations. You may not realize that
you are not permitted to incorporate another's trademark or service mark
into your own site name. This association dilutes the strength and
integrity of our SHACK mark.
Tandy must insist that you immediately cease using its "SHACK" mark as any
part of your business's name or in your internet address.
Nothing in this e-mail represents an admission by Tandy or TPI that you have
any righ5s in or to the "SHACK" name or mark. Tandy and TPI are merely
attempting to inform you of their concerns and notify you of their rights
before circumstances necessitate further action.

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Subject: Use of our registered mark "SHACK"
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:42:55 -0500
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______________________________________
end of noted email-----------

Republica Maro
Soberano Republica
^ W R R E ^ W R R E ^

by **LCC** » Thu, 07 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Quote:
> Today a call was made to Tandy Company and Mrs. Angle, the purported writer of
> the original email to the Scanshack.

> I explained that I ran a website, mailinglist and other ventures that exposed
> me to questions about this matter and wanted to confirm the issue.
> Mrs. Angle stated;" email can be faked and without it I cannot verify it", a
> copy was forwarded to her at her consent and a followup call confirmed her
> receipt of same.

> As of 5 PM EST a followup call was made to Mrs. Angle of Tandy legal
> department; she was not available, Media Relations was not available for
> comment either.

> The items allegedly outlined by Tandy in the email were; the use of the title
> Shack, which is claimed as protected by Tandy Company, confusion by users of
> the web who find the Scanshack and could confuse it with Radio Shack and the
> illegal modification of scanners to receive cellular frequencies, noted is the
> fact that Tandy products are sold and used throughout the world and though FCC
> rules are important, they are not applicable outside the US where restoration,
> modification or reception of these frequencies are completely legal as is the
> use of Tandy products so modified.

True, FCC laws are not applicable outside the US. Yet some countries
ban the use of scanners outright or severly limit their usuage.

by **Minister Pirate At Lar** » Thu, 07 Oct 1999 04:00:00

>Subject: Re: Tandy/Shack Scan Shcak issue Information.

>True, FCC laws are not applicable outside the US. Yet some countries
>ban the use of scanners outright or severly limit their usuage.

but what does this have to do with Tandy making threats to the Scan Shack???
To reply, remove the stuff after aol.com.
I do not like spam, I will not eat spam, I will reject all spam.
Do not send spam , sign me up for it or cook it for me, I WILL REPORT ALL
VIOLATIONS TO ISP OF SENDER OR AUTHORITIES AS MANDATED BY LAW.

by **Andreas Muelle** » Thu, 07 Oct 1999 04:00:00

I'm not sure how long the term "Radio Shack" as refering to a shack where
one keeps one's radio's has been around but I would assume it has been
around alot longer than the actual store. I don't think Tandy would have a
leg to stand on in any kind of legal case, its not like you are selling
gizmos like radio shack sells on the site, or intentionally copying their
logo or other trademarked items in an attempt to confuse their customers.
-Andreas Mueller

> Today a call was made to Tandy Company and Mrs. Angle, the purported
writer of
> the original email to the Scanshack.

> I explained that I ran a website, mailinglist and other ventures that
exposed
> me to questions about this matter and wanted to confirm the issue.
> Mrs. Angle stated;" email can be faked and without it I cannot verify
it", a
> copy was forwarded to her at her consent and a followup call confirmed her
> receipt of same.

> As of 5 PM EST a followup call was made to Mrs. Angle of Tandy legal
> department; she was not available, Media Relations was not available for
> comment either.

> The items allegedly outlined by Tandy in the email were; the use of the
title
> Shack, which is claimed as protected by Tandy Company, confusion by users
of
> the web who find the Scanshack and could confuse it with Radio Shack and
the
> illegal modification of scanners to receive cellular frequencies, noted
is the
> fact that Tandy products are sold and used throughout the world and though
FCC
> rules are important, they are not applicable outside the US where
restoration,
> modification or reception of these frequencies are completely legal as is
the
> use of Tandy products so modified.

> The issue of confusion by unknowing users could be clarified by the site
> operator with a common disclaimer seen on website experiencing similar
> situations.

> The term or word shack has been used throughout human language :
> shack (noun): first appeared:1878

> [Probably back-formation from English dialect shackley rickety]

> 1: HUT, SHANTY

> 2: a room of similar enclosed structure for a particular person or use.

> At this time Tandy has not replied in regard to the alleged email, the
> ScanShack or these questions.

> In the interest of impartiality we called Tandy three times and received
no
> comment on any of those calls, therefore we cannot confirm nor deny this
> incident.

> Provided below is the email sent to Mrs. Angle and the alleged email sent
from
> Tandy to the Scan Shack

> We will attempt to answer our users questions and posts made to us about
this
> issue as best as possible.

> Please do not deluge Tandy with calls or complaints unless justified.

> Thank you,

> Bill Ames
> ScanPB

> :============================

> Subj: Email and my mailinglist- Bill Ames; Scan Palm Beach List
> Date: 10/6/99 1:36:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time
> From: Republica Maro

> Christi Angle;

> Hello, this is Bill Ames the person who just spoke with you today (06 Oct
99 at
> 1:20)

> Just wanted to confirm the validity of this email that was sent to me by a
> member of the maillist I maintain for Florida before I let users post it
or
> create a thread on this subject.

> I just want to be as objective as possible with what is posted and always
try
> to verify information before it is forwarded.

> email address and I was unable to verify this email or the subject through
him,
> therefore I felt it important to verify this item with you.

> Thank you in advance for any assistance.

> Should you have any further information it would be welcomed and posted
> concerning this.

> Please reply to:

> Bill Ames via:

> -------COPY OF EMAIL---------------

> Subj: Use of our registered mark "SHACK"
> Date: 10/5/99 3:43:33 PM Mountain Daylight Time

> Tandy is concerned about your use of its "SHACK" registered mark as your
> business name and internet site name. In the event that you were not
aware,
> you are hereby advised that Technology Properties, Inc. (TPI) owns
numerous
> federal registrations for its internationally recognized RADIOSHACK and
> family of other SHACK marks for a wide variety of consumer products and
> services, including scanners. Millions of dollars are spent annually by
> Tandy, the exclusive licensee of TPI, advertising products and services
> using these marks. the SHACK mark is of enormous value to TPI. Further
> Tandy as a responsible company has worked hard with local, state and
federal
> legislators to ensure that proper use of scanners.
> You site appears to be one devoted to information exchange leading to the
> unauthorized modification of scanners for potentially illegal scanning.
> Your use of our SHACK name and products on your site is no authorized by
> anyone at Tandy. Your use of TPI's registered SHACK name as your site
name
> is likely to confuse the public into believing that is an affiliation
> between you operation and Tandy's SHACK operations. You may not realize
that
> you are not permitted to incorporate another's trademark or service mark
> into your own site name. This association dilutes the strength and
> integrity of our SHACK mark.
> Tandy must insist that you immediately cease using its "SHACK" mark as any
> part of your business's name or in your internet address.
> Nothing in this e-mail represents an admission by Tandy or TPI that you
have
> any righ5s in or to the "SHACK" name or mark. Tandy and TPI are merely
> attempting to inform you of their concerns and notify you of their rights
> before circumstances necessitate further action.

> ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------

> Received: from rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (rly-yh02.mail.aol.com
[172.18.147.34]) by
> air-yh01.mail.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP; Tue, 05 Oct 1999 17:43:33 -0400
> Received: from proxy1.tandy.com (proxy1.tandy.com [139.60.210.5]) by
> rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (v61.13) with ESMTP; Tue, 05 Oct 1999 17:43:04 -0400
> Received: from NTMAILGATE by proxy1.tandy.com
> via smtpd (for rly-yh02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.2]) with SMTP; 5
Oct
> 1999 21:41:11 UT
> Received: by ntmailgate.tandy.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0)
> id <TLJ0D8TH>; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:42:58 -0500

> Subject: Use of our registered mark "SHACK"
> Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:42:55 -0500
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0)
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> ______________________________________
> end of noted email-----------

> Republica Maro
> Soberano Republica
> ^ W R R E ^ W R R E ^

by **Jason Vig** » Thu, 07 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Quote:
[...]
> Tandy is concerned about your use of its "SHACK" registered mark as your
> business name and internet site name. In the event that you were not aware,
[...]
> Tandy must insist that you immediately cease using its "SHACK" mark as any
> part of your business's name or in your internet address.

Notice that they mention "business name" first each time--it is their
primary concern.

If what Mr. ScanShack posted two months ago is true, then they don't
have a leg to stand on as there is no "business" being conducted
using that name:

For the record: I make no money from my site. Actually it cost
me money. (AOL monthly fees) It is strictly a hobby that I
enjoy. I believe enjoyment at doing something is more important
than money... that is if I am able to make money to support
myself and my family at my place of employment.... which I do
and can.

There's nothing wrong with posting cellular mods either. If there
were, Bob Parnass and Henry Eisenson (to name just two people)
would have been in trouble a long time ago.

by **Doug Woodruf** » Thu, 07 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Have you thought about consulting an intellectual property law attorney before
rolling over so quickly? I, for one, would be happy to contribute $$$ to your
cause (can't afford a whole lot but every little bit counts). There may be others
who would do the same.

Remember, also, that until Tandy has a court order which directs you to cease you
run only a small risk. If you refuse to comply with a court order there can be
serious repercussions but not if you only refuse to comply with Tandy's demand.
Demands are only worth about the same amount as the paper they're written
on......and in this case that ain't much since it was an e-mail!

Doug

> >Notice that they mention "business name" first each time--it is their
> >primary concern

> >If what Mr. ScanShack posted two months ago is true, then they don't
> >have a leg to stand on

> >For the record: I make no money from my site. Actually it cost
> > me money. (AOL monthly fees) It is strictly a hobby that I
> > enjoy. I believe enjoyment at doing something is more important
> > than money... that is if I am able to make money to support
> > myself and my family at my place of employment.... which I do
> > and can.

> Yep..... it's all true.... nothing more than a hobby......now down to just the
> Scanner Dweeb comics.... oh well.... they are the most fun anyway.... but the
> site was a nice to have also.... a shame Tandy is concerned about little ole'
> me.... business must be very bad.... ?????

> Visit "The Adventures of Scanner Dweeb"
> A comic strip about radio scanning.
> http://members.aol.com/ScannerDweeb

by **Scanner Dweeb... the comic str** » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

>oday a call was made to Tandy Company and Mrs. Angle, the purported writer of
>the original email to the Scanshack.
>........

I sure had hoped it was a fake e-mail. I thought it was also at first but then
checked with the counter service I have that logs the paths of the last ten
hits to the site. One of the last ten hits came from the following path:

Oct 05 16:46:15 proxy1.tandy.com Internet Explorer 4.x Windows 95 1152x864 65K
(16bit)

which told me that someone from Tandy indeed hit the site at that time. The
e-mail was time stamped after that..... so I figured it was the real deal....
so I took the site down, etc. I did write to Ms. Angle using the

answer to my e-mail.
She may have said e-mail can be faked but when you look at the paths that
e-mail took.... all the proxy servers point right back to someone in the Tandy
chain. I sure hope someone didn't use her computer to play a trick on her.....
please let me (all of us) know when she gets back to you.... I am probably the
most interested party in this matter as I put a lot of work into The Scan Shack
site.....
Thanks again......

by **Rachel07** » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Quote:>: Re: Tandy/Shack Scan Shcak issue Information.

From another post on this subject I saw the someone called her,
Mrs. Angle from Tandy Legal Department.
there was no reply to it as noted on the post today around 6pm.

under : Tandy/Scan Shack Update,

Tonioght I called the Media Relations office myself for some info but they were
already closed.

So whats the final deal, did you close for good?

What plans are up?

Are they going to sue?

I loved the site, thought you put a lot of work into it and always had what I
was looking for, and it wasnt even Mod info at that.

Best of luck in whatever comes of this.

Please keep us posted on the outcome.

by **Scanner Dweeb... the comic str** » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

>So whats the final deal, did you close for good? >>>

I guess it's up to Ms. Angle (and Tandy, TPI).... if she says she didn't send
it... who did ?? Judging from the path it took (servers at Tandy) someone with
the halls of Tandy did in the late afternoon... and after a hit was made at the
site from a Tandy server. If they say it was fake... that will be the key....
we shall see :-)

Quote:>Are they going to sue? >>>

I did what they asked... right away.... I don't think they would ???

Thanks for the well wishes....
Have a GREAT one !

Visit "The Adventures of Scanner Dweeb"
A comic strip about radio scanning.
http://members.aol.com/ScannerDweeb

by **Scanner Dweeb... the comic str** » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

>Notice that they mention "business name" first each time--it is their
>primary concern
>If what Mr. ScanShack posted two months ago is true, then they don't
>have a leg to stand on
>For the record: I make no money from my site. Actually it cost
> me money. (AOL monthly fees) It is strictly a hobby that I
> enjoy. I believe enjoyment at doing something is more important
> than money... that is if I am able to make money to support
> myself and my family at my place of employment.... which I do
> and can.

Yep..... it's all true.... nothing more than a hobby......now down to just the
Scanner Dweeb comics.... oh well.... they are the most fun anyway.... but the
site was a nice to have also.... a shame Tandy is concerned about little ole'
me.... business must be very bad.... ?????

Visit "The Adventures of Scanner Dweeb"
A comic strip about radio scanning.
http://members.aol.com/ScannerDweeb

by DD » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Quote:
>I guess it's up to Ms. Angle

Who the hell is she to tell you what to do with your site?
Tandy ows the word shack like i own the word ddt.
What are you for rolling over so fast?

Quote:> (and Tandy, TPI).... if she says she didn't send
>it... who did ??

Who cares?

Quote:> Judging from the path it took (servers at Tandy) someone with
>the halls of Tandy did in the late afternoon... and after a hit was made at the
>site from a Tandy server. If they say it was fake... that will be the key....
>we shall see :-)

check your e-mail.

by **RFEnforc** » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Quote:>>Are they going to sue? >>>

>I did what they asked... right away.... I don't think they would ???

Why do you bend over for these people? Let them back up their threats. They
don't have a leg to stand on and the resulting bad publicity wouldn't be worth
it for them anyway.

"You've got questions, we've got a public relations nightmare on our hands"

Note: this address does not accept unsolicited e-mail. Please contain all
discussion regarding USENET posts to the appropriate newsgroup thread.

by **RFEnforc** » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Quote:> I am probably the most interested party in this matter as I put a lot of work

into The >ScanShack site.....

Put it back up. They don't have a legal leg to stand on.

"You've got questions...we've got lawyers and sleazy scare tactics."

If you feel I am imposing on your "intellectual property rights" here...SUE
ME!!!!

Note: this address does not accept unsolicited e-mail. Please contain all
discussion regarding USENET posts to the appropriate newsgroup thread.

by **Scanner Dweeb... the comic str** » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

>Have you thought about consulting an intellectual property law attorney
>before
>rolling over so quickly?
>I, for one, would be happy to contribute $$$ to your
>cause >>>>>

Thank you very much Doug...for the offer... but I could not accept any $$$ from
anyone...but I really appreciate all the written support I have been seeing on
these newsgroups...

I am still waiting for Ms. Angle (TANDY) to reply to my e-mail back to
them...I'll wait to see if they do... before I attempt a come-back of the Scan
Shack web site. Also another individual is in contact with her and I have
e-mailed him to get with me if any word is heard on that end.

Thank you again for your very kind offer.
Have a GREAT one !

Visit "The Adventures of Scanner Dweeb"
A comic strip about radio scanning.
http://members.aol.com/ScannerDweeb

by **Mike Yetsk** » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Actually they probably do. But I think there is a big mis-communication
here. Tandy most likely does have the right to enforce it's trademark
in a business sense. However, the key will be how it is tied to
'business'.
Just being a web page for a product that Tandy markets is probably
enough.

Tandy in all probability would have left the sight alone. They probably
would have supported the damn site, except....

Yeah, the 'except'....

The problem is that right now site names are being 'grabbed' and
hoarded. Some individuals over the past couple months have been
trying to 'stake ground' with names, and I wouldn't be surprised if this
were fallout from that.

As to 'Shack' well, trademark law is wierd. Just ask GM about the
lawsuit with Beretta.....

Mike

> >>Are they going to sue? >>>

> >I did what they asked... right away.... I don't think they would ???

> Why do you bend over for these people? Let them back up their
threats. They
> don't have a leg to stand on and the resulting bad publicity wouldn't
be worth
> it for them anyway.