Antenna Advice Desparately Needed!

Antenna Advice Desparately Needed!

Post by Charles O'Ha » Sun, 26 Sep 1999 04:00:00

        I'm planning to move into a neighborhood that has CC&Rs and
have to get an antenna approved.  The 1 acre lots are reasonably well
treed with heights approaching 30 feet so screening of a vertical or a
mast should not be a problem, but the committee has strong control and
may want minimal or none and must be convinced.

What mast would present the minimal profile except when raised?

Re verticals, what is your opinion of the GAP Titan DX relative to
others of similar specs?

Have you any recommendations re other approaches?

A quick response is needed please.

73                  Chuck

 
 
 

Antenna Advice Desparately Needed!

Post by Louis Alber » Sun, 26 Sep 1999 04:00:00


sorry, don't move!

Lou WA8PHD


>         I'm planning to move into a neighborhood that has CC&Rs and
> have to get an antenna approved.  The 1 acre lots are reasonably well
> treed with heights approaching 30 feet so screening of a vertical or a
> mast should not be a problem, but the committee has strong control and
> may want minimal or none and must be convinced.

> What mast would present the minimal profile except when raised?

> Re verticals, what is your opinion of the GAP Titan DX relative to
> others of similar specs?

> Have you any recommendations re other approaches?

> A quick response is needed please.

> 73                  Chuck

 
 
 

Antenna Advice Desparately Needed!

Post by Jim We » Sun, 26 Sep 1999 04:00:00


shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->   I'm planning to move into a neighborhood that has CC&Rs and
->have to get an antenna approved.  The 1 acre lots are reasonably well
->treed with heights approaching 30 feet so screening of a vertical or a
->mast should not be a problem, but the committee has strong control and
->may want minimal or none and must be convinced.

Lemme see if I've got this straight.  You are moving into a community knowing
full well that antennas might not be approved.  You are doing it anyway and
hoping against hope that you might get some sort of antenna past the homeowner's
association committee.  Is that about it?

->A quick response is needed please.

Simple.  Get preapproval before you move in.  If approval is not forthcoming,
you've got a pretty clear choice, don't you?  Move in and use an attic antenna
or live elsewhere.

Jim
Jim Weir, VP Eng. RST Eng.      WX6RST
A&P, CFI, and other good alphabet soup

 
 
 

Antenna Advice Desparately Needed!

Post by A. Jone » Sun, 26 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Doug Smith wrote

Quote:>The big problem [with #30 antenna wire] is mechanical,

I used such an antenna. It worked well. I used shirt buttons for insulators.
My biggest problem was that birds occasionally flew into it and broke it. If
birds can't see it, then your neighbors shouldn't object...
 
 
 

Antenna Advice Desparately Needed!

Post by Doug Smit » Mon, 27 Sep 1999 04:00:00


>         I'm planning to move into a neighborhood that has CC&Rs and
> have to get an antenna approved.  The 1 acre lots are reasonably well
> treed with heights approaching 30 feet so screening of a vertical or a
> mast should not be a problem, but the committee has strong control and
> may want minimal or none and must be convinced.

> What mast would present the minimal profile except when raised?

> Re verticals, what is your opinion of the GAP Titan DX relative to
> others of similar specs?

> Have you any recommendations re other approaches?

If it were me, I'd start house-hunting elsewhere...  But understanding
that sometimes the WAF (XYL approval factor) and other things must
override one's desire to have an effective station...

Could you get a wire antenna up into the trees?  If done carefully, it
could be nearly invisible.  For multiple bands, you could either run
ladder line into the shack (admittedly that poses an aesthetic problem:
ladder line is difficult to hide without comprimising its electrical
characteristics, but if the foliage is thick enough it may not be a
problem)  or put several dipoles on a common center insulator.  

Invisible random end-fed wires can work pretty well.  If you can find
some #30 magnet wire (Radio Shack used to sell 200' spools) it will work
nicely.  The big problem is mechanical, providing enough flex to keep it
from breaking.  I'm told *** bands are the answer to that problem.
Don't worry about power-handling capability or losses; a #30 antenna
will handle the full output of a 100-watt transceiver.

I've heard less-than-good comments about the Gap antennas, though I've
never tried one myself.  Of the ones I've used, I've had the best luck
with the Butternuts.  But their exposed coils (while quite effective
RF-wise) are not all that aesthetically pleasing.  

It's too bad AEA is out of business, their Isoloop worked very well
either as an attic antenna or something you could stick in the top of a
larger tree.  Maybe you can find a used one?  The big problem with
magnetic loops is very narrow bandwidth, you have to retune the antenna
if you QSY more than a few kilohertz.  

If worse comes to worse...  you could put up a flagpole...  few
committees put aesthetics before patriotism, though there are some that
do...
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.redwaveradio.com/~w9wi

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Antenna Advice Desparately Needed!

Post by Dwight Stewar » Tue, 28 Sep 1999 04:00:00

  Actually, this seldom is a case of cosmetics, even if that is the most
commonly stated reason.  Nor is it RFI problems.  Instead, it is often
the cable television companies pushing for these rules.

  I stayed in a fairly nice townhouse community several years ago.  The
first couple of years, antennas were no problem.  However, shortly after
construction started on several new units, notices were sent out banning
all antennas.  After a long argument, the community owner finally told
me that the cable company had offered to install cable wiring and
outlets free inside the new units during construction, but one of the
stipulations for this deal was a ban on all antennas.

  It seems the cable company did not want competition for their cable
television service (free broadcast television), or for their cable radio
service (free broadcast radio).  Since it is hard (in their minds) to
tell the difference between these antennas and the antennas used with
the hobby radio services, the solution was a ban on all antennas.

  The owner agreed since he could advertise that cable was available in
the new units, and he would save money by not having to run the cable
wiring throughout the interiors of the new units.

  Since then, after staying in several other places, I have discovered
that cable companies are doing this all over the country.  So, if we
want to get rid of these rules, we have to reel in the cable companies.

  The solution is state laws, or federal laws, to restrict cable
companies from making these types of arrangements with developers.  Or
at least laws protecting hobby radio use in these communities.

Dwight Stewart
Amateur Radio, Technician
F.C.C. License: W5NET
http://www.qsl.net/w5net


> I imagine they also get cold chills when they pay all that money for a big
> blue sky view (underground utilities), and the guy next door wants to put up
> a 75' tower from with which to destroy not only their view, but also their
> phones, computer, organ and TV...h

 
 
 

Antenna Advice Desparately Needed!

Post by KC2F » Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:00:00

That sounds to me like unfair restraint of trade,
but also par for a cable company.

On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 02:12:59 -0700, Dwight Stewart


>  Actually, this seldom is a case of cosmetics, even if that is the most
>commonly stated reason.  Nor is it RFI problems.  Instead, it is often
>the cable television companies pushing for these rules.

>  I stayed in a fairly nice townhouse community several years ago.  The
>first couple of years, antennas were no problem.  However, shortly after
>construction started on several new units, notices were sent out banning
>all antennas.  After a long argument, the community owner finally told
>me that the cable company had offered to install cable wiring and
>outlets free inside the new units during construction, but one of the
>stipulations for this deal was a ban on all antennas.

>  It seems the cable company did not want competition for their cable
>television service (free broadcast television), or for their cable radio
>service (free broadcast radio).  Since it is hard (in their minds) to
>tell the difference between these antennas and the antennas used with
>the hobby radio services, the solution was a ban on all antennas.

>  The owner agreed since he could advertise that cable was available in
>the new units, and he would save money by not having to run the cable
>wiring throughout the interiors of the new units.

>  Since then, after staying in several other places, I have discovered
>that cable companies are doing this all over the country.  So, if we
>want to get rid of these rules, we have to reel in the cable companies.

>  The solution is state laws, or federal laws, to restrict cable
>companies from making these types of arrangements with developers.  Or
>at least laws protecting hobby radio use in these communities.

>Dwight Stewart
>Amateur Radio, Technician
>F.C.C. License: W5NET
>http://www.qsl.net/w5net


>> I imagine they also get cold chills when they pay all that money for a big
>> blue sky view (underground utilities), and the guy next door wants to put up
>> a 75' tower from with which to destroy not only their view, but also their
>> phones, computer, organ and TV...h

------
Just random thoughts
 
 
 

Antenna Advice Desparately Needed!

Post by KC2F » Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:00:00

On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:22:52 -0700, "A. Jones"


>KC2FCR wrote
>>you should give some thought to the quality
>>of people that would select that type of
>>environment to live in.  Gives me cold chills just
>>thinking about it.

>I imagine they also get cold chills when they pay all that money for a big
>blue sky view (underground utilities), and the guy next door wants to put up
>a 75' tower from with which to destroy not only their view, but also their
>phones, computer, organ and TV...

My point exactly.  You're going to get people that
shave all the trees off the top of a hill, put a
big house on top, then complain about what other
people do to "their" environment.  To stereotype,
those who are more worried about the perception of
property values than other people's freedom.  I
sure wouldn't want them for neighbors.  I'm
equally sure many others would, as "they" usually
keep their lawn trimmed.

------
Just random thoughts

 
 
 

Antenna Advice Desparately Needed!

Post by Dwight Stewar » Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:00:00

  You _don't_ keep your lawn trimmed?  ;-)

  I trimmed my lawn with a weedeater just last week.  Hey, I ran out of
gas in the lawnmower, okay?  And I'm too lazy to go to the station for
another can of gas.  The lawn didn't come out too smooth, but it is cut
(so my neighbors should be happy).  Maybe next month, when I cut it
again, I'll take to time to do it better.

  What, me worry about what my neighbors think about antennas?  Hah, if
they complain, I can easily turn into the neighbor from hell. <big grin>

Dwight Stewart
Amateur Radio, Technician
F.C.C. License: W5NET
http://www.qsl.net/w5net


> <snip> I'm equally sure many others would,
> as "they" usually keep their lawn trimmed.

 
 
 

Antenna Advice Desparately Needed!

Post by A. Jone » Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Dwight Stewart wrote

Quote:>What, me worry about what my neighbors think about antennas?  Hah, if
>they complain, I can easily turn into the neighbor from hell. <big grin>

Which is why CC&R's were invented...
 
 
 

Antenna Advice Desparately Needed!

Post by A. Jone » Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:00:00

KC2FCR wrote

Quote:>To stereotype, those who are more worried about the perception of
>property values than other people's freedom.

Freedom is never completely free. You are likely already subject to laws on
what you can do with your property. At least with CC&R's you go in with your
eyes open. You agree to the restrictions in *writing* so that *you* will be
protected from the guy next-door running a garage out of his house (or a ham
station).

Quote:>sure wouldn't want them for neighbors.

Then don't buy there...
 
 
 

Antenna Advice Desparately Needed!

Post by Dennis Breede » Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Most verticals are under 30' and most if not all of it should be hidden
within the trees or by the house.  Verticals work, the more resonate
ground wires the better.  It will never out perform a Beam or good dipole
unless you are running a mono-band phased array, which is not a bad
option, I looking to do this on 10 Meters, a 3 element broadside array.

I guessing it is too late, but you could have made it part of the offer
that the antenna be pre-approved by the CCR board.  If new, the builder
has a lot, if not total say what is approved.

A last option, if you like working traffic, join MARS and/or RACES, these
are federal government agencies and any requirements usually have to be
excepted because Federal Government preempts CCRS.

 
 
 

Antenna Advice Desparately Needed!

Post by A. Jone » Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:00:00

KC2FCR wrote

Quote:>My point exactly.  Voting with your feet.

We agree. I always get a chuckle when hams sign those CC&R's, and then later
complain here about those terrible rules they agreed to in writing...
 
 
 

Antenna Advice Desparately Needed!

Post by Ken Bro » Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Don't do it! And if you must move to such a place, become a super
patriot. You can't have to many flag poles now can you? Or how about
large scuptures of aluminum?  

>    I'm planning to move into a neighborhood that has CC&Rs and
>have to get an antenna approved.  The 1 acre lots are reasonably well
>treed with heights approaching 30 feet so screening of a vertical or a
>mast should not be a problem, but the committee has strong control and
>may want minimal or none and must be convinced.
>What mast would present the minimal profile except when raised?
>Re verticals, what is your opinion of the GAP Titan DX relative to
>others of similar specs?
>Have you any recommendations re other approaches?
>A quick response is needed please.
>73                  Chuck

 
 
 

Antenna Advice Desparately Needed!

Post by KC2F » Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:00:00

On Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:08:55 -0700, "A. Jones"


>KC2FCR wrote
>>To stereotype, those who are more worried about the perception of
>>property values than other people's freedom.

>Freedom is never completely free. You are likely already subject to laws on
>what you can do with your property. At least with CC&R's you go in with your
>eyes open. You agree to the restrictions in *writing* so that *you* will be
>protected from the guy next-door running a garage out of his house (or a ham
>station).

Zoning laws do apply in many areas, are all in
writing as public documents, can be overridden
with variances, and are subject to modification by
an elected representative government.  To me, a
better system than cc&r, but that's just me.
Freedom does come with a price, you're right.  I
believe the price is a duty to oppose restrictions
of freedom, and the price of learning tolerance.  

I, for one, wouldn't mind living next door to a
garage.  

Quote:>>sure wouldn't want them for neighbors.

>Then don't buy there...

My point exactly.  Voting with your feet.

------
Just random thoughts