O.T.: But interesting reading, especially the nuclear part.

O.T.: But interesting reading, especially the nuclear part.

Post by DXlover5747388 » Thu, 04 Jul 2002 13:37:02

Thought I'd share this,  it is a good read.  I am sure many in this good
already know much of this,  as I did.  But I was always curious about what
would actually happen if there was a nuclear blast.....the chemical stuff
doesn't really worry me that much.
Quote:> THE "REAL" DEAL ABOUT NUCLEAR, BIO, AND CHEM ATTACKS
> =====================================================

> This is another one of those "not inspirational" but hopefully
> educational issues.  You should not live in fear.  I am a chemist
> by educational training, so I understand much of the technical
> aspects of this.  You don't have to be an expert to understand it.  

> Potential terrorism is reported with increasing frequency.  
> Anthrax and potentially smallpox and other attacks have scared
> the nation.  People hope their symptoms are the flu, not anthrax.  
> Sure anthrax is deadlier, just as a bazooka is deadlier than a
> .38 pistol.  

> You are far more likely however to be killed by a pistol than a
> bazooka.  Eigh*** people so far have died from anthrax.  That
> is a tragedy and I am not belittling the hurt those families are
> going through.  20,000 will die this year from the flu.

> Truth will help dispel fear and allow you to concentrate on the
> real danger and the things that you can control, read on...
> ----------------------------------------------------------

> "REAL" DEAL ABOUT NUCLEAR, BIO, AND CHEM ATTACKS

> Since the media has decided to scare everyone with predictions
> of chemical, biological, or nuclear warfare on our turf, I
> decided to write a paper and keep things in their proper
> perspective.

> I am a retired military weapons, munitions, and training expert.

> Lesson number one: In the mid 1990's there were a series of
> nerve gas attacks on crowded Japanese subway stations.  Given
> perfect conditions for an attack, less than 10% of the people
> there were injured (the injured were better in a few hours) and
> only one percent of the injured died.  

> 60 Minutes once had a fellow telling us that one drop of nerve
> gas could kill a thousand people, well he didn't tell you the
> thousand dead people per drop was theoretical.

> Drill Sergeants exaggerate how terrible this stuff was to keep
> the recruits awake in class (I know this because I was a Drill
> Sergeant too).  Forget everything you've ever seen on TV, in the
> movies, or read in a novel about this stuff, it was all a lie
> (read this sentence again out loud!!)  These weapons are about
> terror; if you remain calm, you will probably not die.

> This is far less scary than the media and their "Experts" make
> it sound.  Chemical weapons are categorized as Nerve, ***,
> Blister, and Incapacitating agents.

> Contrary to the hype of reporters and politicians they are not
> weapons of mass destruction.  They are "Area denial" and terror
> weapons that don't destroy anything.  When you leave the area
> you almost always leave the risk.  That's the difference; you
> can leave the area and the risk; soldiers may have to stay put
> and sit through it and that's why they need all that spiffy
> gear.

> These are not gasses, they are vapors and/or air borne
> particles.  The agent must be delivered in sufficient quantity
> to kill/injure, and that defines when/how it's used.

> Every day we have a morning and evening inversion where "stuff"
> suspended in the air gets pushed down.  This inversion is why
> allergies (pollen) and air pollution are worst at these times of
> the day.  So, a chemical attack will have it's best effect an
> hour or so either side of sunrise/sunset.  Also, being vapors
> and airborne particles, they are heavier than air so they will
> seek low places like ditches, ba***ts and underground garages.

> This stuff won't work when it's freezing, it doesn't last when
> it's hot, and wind spreads it too thin too fast.

> They've got to get this stuff on you, or get you to inhale it
> for it to work.  They also have to get the concentration of
> chemicals high enough to kill or wound you.

> Too little and it's nothing, too much and it's wasted.

> What I hope you've gathered by this point is that a chemical
> weapons attack that kills a lot of people is incredibly hard to
> do with military grade agents and equipment, so you can imagine
> how hard it will be for terrorists.

> The more you know about this stuff, the more you realize how
> hard it is to use.

> We'll start by talking about nerve agents.

> You have these in your house.  Plain old bug killer (like Raid)
> is nerve agent.  All nerve agents work the same way; they are
> cholinesterase inhibitors that mess up the signals your nervous
> system uses to make your body function.

> It can harm you if you get it on your skin, but it works best if
> they can get you to inhale it.  If you don't die in the first
> minute and you can leave the area you're probably gonna live.

> The military's antidote for all nerve agents is atropine and
> pralidoxime chloride.  Neither one of these does anything to
> cure the nerve agent; they send your body into overdrive to keep
> you alive for five minutes, after that the agent is used up.

> Your best protection is fresh air and staying calm.  Listed
> below are the symptoms for nerve agent poisoning:

> Sudden headache, Dimness of vision (someone you're looking at
> will have pinpointed pupils), Runny nose, Excessive saliva or
> drooling, Difficulty breathing, Tightness in chest, Nausea,
> Stomach cramps, Twitching of exposed skin where a liquid just
> got on you.  

> If you are in public and you start experiencing these symptoms,
> first ask yourself, did anything out of the ordinary just
> happen, a loud pop, did someone spray something on the crowd?

> Are other people getting sick too?
> Is there an odor of new mown hay, green corn, something fruity,
> or camphor where it shouldn't be?

> If the answer is yes, then calmly (if you panic you breathe
> faster and inhale more air/poison) leave the area and head up
> wind, or, outside.

> Fresh air is the best "right now antidote."
> If you have a blob of liquid that looks like molasses or Kayro
> syrup on you; blot it or scrape it off and away from yourself
> with anything disposable.  

> This stuff works based on your body weight.  What a crop duster
> uses to kill bugs won't hurt you unless you stand there and
> breathe it in real deep, then*** the residue off the ground
> for while.

> Remember they have to do all the work, they have to get the
> concentration up and keep it up for several minutes while all
> you have to do is quit getting it on you/quit breathing it by
> putting space between you and the attack.

> *** agents are cyanide or arsine which affect your ***'s
> ability to provide oxygen to your tissue.  The scenario for
> attack would be the same as nerve agent.

> Look for a pop or someone splashing/spraying something and
> folks around there getting woozy/falling down.  The telltale
> smells are bitter almonds or garlic where it shouldn't be.  

> The symptoms are blue lips, blue under the fingernails and rapid
> breathing.  The military's antidote is amyl nitride and just
> like nerve agent antidote, it just keeps your body working
> for five minutes until the toxins are used up.

> Fresh air is your best individual chance.

> Blister agents (distilled mustard) are so *** that nobody
> wants to even handle it let alone use it.  It's almost
> impossible to handle safely and may have delayed effects of up
> to 12 hours.  The attack scenario is also limited to the things
> you'd see from other chemicals.

> If you do get large, painful blisters for no apparent reason,
> don't pop them; if you must, don't let the liquid from the
> blister get on any other area, the stuff just keeps on
> spreading.  It's just as likely to harm the user as the target.
> Soap, water, sunshine, and fresh air are this stuff's enemy.

> Bottom line on chemical weapons (it's the same if they use
> industrial chemical spills); they are intended to make you
> panic, to terrorize you, to heard you like sheep to the wolves.

> If there is an attack, leave the area and go upwind, or to the
> sides of the wind stream.  They have to get the stuff to you and
> on you.  You're more likely to be hurt by a drunk driver on any
> given day than be hurt by one of these attacks.

> Your odds get better if you leave the area.  Soap, water, time,
> and fresh air really deal this stuff a knock-out-punch.

> Don't let fear of an isolated attack rule your life.
> The odds are really on your side.

> Nuclear bombs.

> These are the only weapons of mass destruction on earth.
> The effects of a nuclear bomb are heat, blast, EMP, and
> radiation.

> If you see a bright flash of light like the sun, where the sun
> isn't, fall to the ground!  The heat will be over in a second.

> Then there will be two blast waves, one out going and one on
> it's way back.

> Don't stand up to see what happened after the first wave;
> anything that's going to happen will have happened in two full
> minutes.

> These will be low yield devices and will not level whole cities.

> If you live through the heat, blast, and initial burst of
> radiation, you'll probably live for a very very long time.

> Radiation will not create fifty-foot tall women or giant ants
> and grass hoppers the size of tanks.  These will be at the most
> 1-kiloton bombs; that's the equivalent of 1,000 tons of TNT.

> Here's the real deal.  Flying debris and radiation will kill a
> lot of exposed (not all) people within a half mile of the blast.

> Under perfect conditions this is about a half mile circle of
> death and destruction, but when it's done it's done.

> EMP stands for Electro Magnetic Pulse and it will fry every
> electronic

...

read more »

 
 
 

O.T.: But interesting reading, especially the nuclear part.

Post by DXlover5747388 » Fri, 05 Jul 2002 15:39:50


huh........no replies.  I'm amazed. ;-)
 
 
 

O.T.: But interesting reading, especially the nuclear part.

Post by CW » Sat, 06 Jul 2002 00:26:57

Nothing much to reply to. The man knows what he is talking about.

Quote:> huh........no replies.  I'm amazed. ;-)

 
 
 

O.T.: But interesting reading, especially the nuclear part.

Post by Frank Dress » Sat, 06 Jul 2002 01:27:17


>huh........no replies.  I'm amazed. ;-)

It's new mode ethical behavior on rrs.  Nobody responds unless the subject line
mentions another poster or a tenous connection to SW.  Had you called it "Ways
to Stop Glenn Hauser -- Especially EMP!" you'd have started a neverending trash
dump tire fire of a flame war.

Frank Dresser

 
 
 

O.T.: But interesting reading, especially the nuclear part.

Post by DXlover5747388 » Sat, 06 Jul 2002 07:26:58

Quote:>Had you called it "Ways
>to Stop Glenn Hauser -- Especially EMP!" you'd have started a neverending
>trash
>dump tire fire of a flame war.

Frank,
You cracked me up,  that made me laugh out loud......happy 4th. :-)
 
 
 

O.T.: But interesting reading, especially the nuclear part.

Post by Nobody You Kn » Sat, 06 Jul 2002 08:52:36


>THE "REAL" DEAL ABOUT NUCLEAR, BIO, AND CHEM ATTACKS

For anyone interested in nuclear bomb history, testing, and effects, I highly
recommend THE ATOMIC BOMB MOVIE, which is now on DVD. Amazing stuff.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
A communist best serves mankind from the grave.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

 
 
 

O.T.: But interesting reading, especially the nuclear part.

Post by DXlover5747388 » Sat, 06 Jul 2002 10:43:07

Quote:>highly
>recommend THE ATOMIC BOMB MOVIE, which is now on DVD. Amazing stuff.

Never heard of it,  can you get it anywhere??
 
 
 

O.T.: But interesting reading, especially the nuclear part.

Post by DXlover5747388 » Sat, 06 Jul 2002 10:52:43

Quote:> can you get it anywhere??

Let me rephrase that.  Can it be rented at a  Blockbuster or where is it that
it can be purchased?
 
 
 

O.T.: But interesting reading, especially the nuclear part.

Post by GrtPmpkin » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 00:28:54

Quote:>>highly
>>recommend THE ATOMIC BOMB MOVIE, which is now on DVD. Amazing stuff.

>Never heard of it,  can you get it anywhere??

Bought my copy at a local Best Buy, about two years ago. It's likely available
from outlets like Best Buy, Fry's, maybe even a Circuit City. Anyplace which
deals in a GOOD stock of video stuff should have it.
Linus
 
 
 

O.T.: But interesting reading, especially the nuclear part.

Post by Brian Denle » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 09:50:51

Is that the one that stars Harry Reems?

--
Brian Denley
http://home.attbi.com/~bdenley/index.html




> >THE "REAL" DEAL ABOUT NUCLEAR, BIO, AND CHEM ATTACKS

> For anyone interested in nuclear bomb history, testing, and effects, I
highly
> recommend THE ATOMIC BOMB MOVIE, which is now on DVD. Amazing stuff.

> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
> A communist best serves mankind from the grave.
> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

 
 
 

O.T.: But interesting reading, especially the nuclear part.

Post by Nobody You Kn » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 12:42:26


>Let me rephrase that.  Can it be rented at a  Blockbuster or where is it that
>it can be purchased?

I got mine from amazon.com. Chances are they still carry it.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
A communist best serves mankind from the grave.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

 
 
 

O.T.: But interesting reading, especially the nuclear part.

Post by Eric F. Richard » Sat, 06 Jul 2002 23:49:08


> huh........no replies.  I'm amazed. ;-)

Okay, I'll comment...

I disagree with his EMP statements.  To get large-scale EMP you need
to detonate above the atmosphere.  A ground burst is going to produce
EMP but the effect will be very weak and will only be significant
around where the explosive force is far more ***.

I also disagree that EMP will nail small electronics like cell
phones unless it's EXTREMELY high.  EMP's damaging characteristic
is that it covers large areas simultaneously, inducing charges
in long power line runs, for example.

His Bio/Chem analysis seemed right on the money to me.

Discuss. :-)
--
Eric F. Richards

"The weird part is that I can feel productive even when I'm doomed."
 - Dilbert

 
 
 

O.T.: But interesting reading, especially the nuclear part.

Post by Frank Dress » Mon, 08 Jul 2002 01:07:58


>I disagree with his EMP statements.  To get large-scale EMP you need
>to detonate above the atmosphere.  A ground burst is going to produce
>EMP but the effect will be very weak and will only be significant
>around where the explosive force is far more ***.

>I also disagree that EMP will nail small electronics like cell
>phones unless it's EXTREMELY high.  EMP's damaging characteristic
>is that it covers large areas simultaneously, inducing charges
>in long power line runs, for example.

>His Bio/Chem analysis seemed right on the money to me.

>Discuss. :-)
>--

If terrorists get ahold of a nuke, I sure hope they try the EMP thing, but I
fear they won't.  EMP seems iffy.  If I understand it correctly, they would
somehow have to lift a fairly large nuke into the upper atmosphere, and the
effects of the blast aren't fully predictable.  Most of our real world EMP
expirence came from a test over the Pacific in the end of the atmospheric
testing era.  It took awhile to connect the test with a power failure in
Hawaii.  Nearly all of the rest of the electronic equiptment came through fine,
including germanium transistor radios.  Nobody is going to play around with the
EMP threat unless they have a large surplus of nukes.

Frank Dresser

 
 
 

O.T.: But interesting reading, especially the nuclear part.

Post by DXlover5747388 » Mon, 08 Jul 2002 04:21:00

Quote:>I disagree with his EMP statements.  To get large-scale EMP you need
>to detonate above the atmosphere.  A ground burst is going to produce
>EMP but the effect will be very weak and will only be significant
>around where the explosive force is far more ***.

I 'questioned" his EMP statement.  I guess that I always had the belief that
anything within 5 miles electronically would become*baked*.......maybe even 10
miles.

You don't think radios just sitting on a shelf or table somewhere would fry??

<<lift a fairly large nuke into the upper atmosphere, and the
effects of the blast aren't fully predictable.>>

That's the part that is kind of scary,  no one 'really' knows what would
happen.  I would hope hope that my radios don't become french fries. :-(

 
 
 

O.T.: But interesting reading, especially the nuclear part.

Post by Frank Dress » Mon, 08 Jul 2002 07:18:44


>I 'questioned" his EMP statement.  I guess that I always had the belief that
>anything within 5 miles electronically would become*baked*.......maybe even
>10
>miles.

>You don't think radios just sitting on a shelf or table somewhere would fry??

><<lift a fairly large nuke into the upper atmosphere, and the
>effects of the blast aren't fully predictable.>>

>That's the part that is kind of scary,  no one 'really' knows what would
>happen.  I would hope hope that my radios don't become french fries. :-(

We'd been nuking it up in closely observed tests for fif*** years before the
EMP was discovered.  It's unpredictable because it hasn't been tested
completely, and can't be simulated perfectly.  I'm sure if we thought it really
worth knowing all it's details, we would have said the hell with the test ban
treaty and tested it all out.  It wasn't that frightening.  The effects of the
blast, radiation and fallout are powerful and well known.  An EMP attack is far
more difficult than a low altitude blast, and may not amount to much.  There's
plenty about nukes and EMP here:

http://www.redwaveradio.com/

Enter EMP in the search box.

Will your radios get fried?  I hope not.  I hope the terrorists never get their
hands on a working nuke. Let's hope they're spending their last few dimes on
trackable dud nukes from the CIA.

Frank Dresser