Red Wave Radio

Money talks, public service walks- BPL is a certainty.

The "null it out- anyone can do it" argument is crap-
works well in theory, poorly in the field.
Even with excellent nulling, QRP and other weak signal work is finished.
Shortwave DXing is finished.

You have three choices-
Give up radio.
Move far enough into the country to avoid the polluted grid,
"Gorilla warfare-" Power lines that leak out, can also leak IN.
50 watts of broadband noise generator plugged into the nearest socket
would do.  Note that I would never advocate anything illegal.....
D.S.

Quote:

> Money talks, public service walks- BPL is a certainty.

Quote:

> The "null it out- anyone can do it" argument is crap-
> works well in theory, poorly in the field.
> Even with excellent nulling, QRP and other weak signal work is finished.
> Shortwave DXing is finished.

> You have three choices-
> Give up radio.
> Move far enough into the country to avoid the polluted grid,
> "Gorilla warfare-" Power lines that leak out, can also leak IN.
> 50 watts of broadband noise generator plugged into the nearest socket
> would do.  Note that I would never advocate anything illegal.....
> D.S.

I have to wonder how much BPL access would be knocked out by a sparky old
ozone generating vacuum cleaner.  One room?  A few houses?

And let's not forget our old nemisis, the bargain ba***t switchmode
computer power supply.  I have one which pumps enough hashy variable
frequency hets to overwhelm even strong local broadcast stations on a radio
in the same room.

Some thief ran, well -- hobbled, off with my arc welder a few years ago.  I
never replaced it.  Good thing, I now realize.

I kinda doubt electrical interference would cut off somebody's BPL access
entirely.  I picture the error rate going up and up, and the connection
speeds going down and down.  Maybe even slower than dial-up.  Even worse,
the guy who pays for BPL is likely to blame the power company, rather than
the real culprit -- the clown who just doesn't give a damn about RFI.

Frank Dresser

--
   73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

        Maybe the FCC can serve an enforcement letter to the sun! 8^)

        - Mike KB3EIA -

The only people who give a damn about RFI are the people who use radio.

I'm not an expert on BPL, but I don't have any faith in the FCC's ability to
look past a glossy demo and into the real world, either.  If I had been
invited to the demos, I'd have brought my old vacuum cleaner and my
homebuilt PC with the noisy power supply(which, I assume, is good under Part
15 regs.  Ha!).  I think somebody would give a damn if everyday electrical
noisemakers slowed BPL.

Frank Dresser

Looks like I'm going to have to research some nice linear as well as a
decent HF station.  I had been looking at a vertical to avoid all of the
horizontal lines in the neighborhood, but, on second thought ... 1500 watts
horizontally polarized, 50 feet from the power lines might prove interesting
:)

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA
ps - we need a study as to where the biggest ingress will occur :)

Quote:

> Money talks, public service walks- BPL is a certainty.

> The "null it out- anyone can do it" argument is crap-
> works well in theory, poorly in the field.
> Even with excellent nulling, QRP and other weak signal work is finished.
> Shortwave DXing is finished.

> You have three choices-
> Give up radio.
> Move far enough into the country to avoid the polluted grid,
> "Gorilla warfare-" Power lines that leak out, can also leak IN.
> 50 watts of broadband noise generator plugged into the nearest socket
> would do.  Note that I would never advocate anything illegal.....
> D.S.

Quote:> Have any of these Genii given any though of what would happen to bpl
> during solar event?

73, Hans

--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Quote:

>Money talks, public service walks- BPL is a certainty.

>The "null it out- anyone can do it" argument is crap-
>works well in theory, poorly in the field.
>Even with excellent nulling, QRP and other weak signal work is finished.
>Shortwave DXing is finished.

>You have three choices-
>Give up radio.
>Move far enough into the country to avoid the polluted grid,
>"Gorilla warfare-" Power lines that leak out, can also leak IN.
>50 watts of broadband noise generator plugged into the nearest socket
>would do.  Note that I would never advocate anything illegal.....
>D.S.

Quote:> Have any of these Genii given any though of what would happen to bpl
> during solar event?

> Maybe the FCC can serve an enforcement letter to the sun! 8^)

> - Mike KB3EIA -

Of course they didn't think it out.  If they did it would never have made it
to this stage.

Dan/W4NTI

Dan/W4NTI

        The reason that lights and motors work well enough is that they aren't
affected by the junk that gets impressed on the power lines.

        And finally, just finally, I wonder exactly HOW the power companies are
going to respond to the problems of their OWN RFI generation?

        Lessee, lets look at the enforcement letters from the FCC. Many of them
are to power providers because of equipment that is interfering with
some ham somewhere. It has to get to the enforcement stage, for crying
out loud. So are the Power companies going to replace all those
transfprmers and other power line junk that is spewing out RFI for the
BPL'ers?

        - Mike KB3EIA -

Quote:> David,

> Looks like I'm going to have to research some nice linear as well as a
> decent HF station.  I had been looking at a vertical to avoid all of the
> horizontal lines in the neighborhood, but, on second thought ... 1500
watts
> horizontally polarized, 50 feet from the power lines might prove
interesting
> :)

> 73 from Rochester, NY
> Jim AA2QA
> ps - we need a study as to where the biggest ingress will occur :)

I'd be curious to know how vunerable BPL is to interference.  I have no
doubt the BPL people have run tests, and I'm a little surprised they're not
at the front of a webpage somewhere.  Ham radio may not have alot of effect.
The power lines will only absorb a fraction of what's transmitted, and will
probably re-radiate most of that.  I would think interference from devices
plugged directly into the lines would have the most effect.  Like spikey old
universal motors and cheap switchmode power supplies.

Politically, it's far better if damaging interference comes from everyday
objects around the home.  Like the vacuum cleaner, the microwave oven, the
kid's computer, etc.

And nothing will help as much as bringing new people into the radio hobby.

Frank Dresser

Using the baby RXs on the power line, BPL might be fun.

Bill, K5BY

Quote:> Ham radio may not have alot of effect.
> The power lines will only absorb a fraction of what's transmitted, and will
> probably re-radiate most of that.  I would think interference from devices
> plugged directly into the lines would have the most effect.  Like spikey old
> universal motors and cheap switchmode power supplies.

> Politically, it's far better if damaging interference comes from everyday
> objects around the home.  Like the vacuum cleaner, the microwave oven, the
> kid's computer, etc.

> And nothing will help as much as bringing new people into the radio hobby.

Far beyond the question of hams interfering with BPL comes the much
more important question of BPL interfering with the long list of
licensed incumbent HF users. Within that group radio hobbyists are
basically bit players. Smart and noisy bit players but nonetheless bit
players. Other users are *not* bit players and them's the folks who I
expect will quietly and decisively torpedo BPL.

Quote:

> Frank Dresser

Quote:> I use the power line as an antenna for my baby SW RXs, when I carry them
around
> the house. In fact, using the power line provides better recpetion at 3.21
MHz
> on my Grundig eTR7 than I get with my 40M inverted vee on my DX-392. LOL

> Using the baby RXs on the power line, BPL might be fun.

> Bill, K5BY