Radio controlled clocks WRONG?

Radio controlled clocks WRONG?

Post by Dave » Wed, 10 Apr 2013 07:55:45


Anyone else seeing this?  Mine has been wrong for a two or three days
running, and has been updating to the incorret time.  What gives?  Any
ideas?

Thanks.

Dave

 
 
 

Radio controlled clocks WRONG?

Post by N? M? ?baMa » Wed, 10 Apr 2013 08:38:43



Quote:> Anyone else seeing this? ?Mine has been wrong for a two or three days
> running, and has been updating to the incorret time. ?What gives? ?Any
> ideas?

Go back to sleep.  It'll all be over in a few short years.
 
 
 

Radio controlled clocks WRONG?

Post by Michael Blac » Wed, 10 Apr 2013 10:37:20


> Anyone else seeing this?  Mine has been wrong for a two or three days
> running, and has been updating to the incorret time.  What gives?  Any
> ideas?

Assuming you haven't changed its orientation (they do work best with the
antenna aimed at the transmitter), you might check to make sure the
battery or batteries are fresh.  Measure them with a voltmeter, or at the
very least mark them with the date when putting in new ones.  They can
last a long time, but eventually they'll need replacing and weak batteries
may be an issue.  After all, the clock itself is very low current, as is
the LCD display, but the radio can be a drain (which is why they tend to
check only a few times each day, and that in the early hours of the
morning when interference will be lowest).

What I've noticed with some is if they get out of sync (usually there's
some  marker on the LCD to show that it had sync'd up the night before),
it may not resync.  I don't know why that is, but I've lots sync every so
often and they dont' resync.  I press the button to resync late at night,
and that sometimes doesn't work.  So I take out the batteries late at
night, and then yes indeed, it's sync'ed up again the next morning.

Rarely does something happen where there is a universal problem.  I have
four of the clocks, and a Casio Wavecepter, and so long as I have them
oriented right they will every so often not sync up.  But it's not
consistent across all five units, one may not sync, every so often it's
more than one, but I cant' think of a time when they all didn't sync up.

They are affected by things like CFL lights, so if one night you stay up
really late, that may affect things (since you leave the light on and that
interferes).  TV sets may interfere, I suspect less now that they are LCD,
but to offset that, the switching supplies may be an issue.  My watch
starts looking for a signal at midnight, the clocks wait till 3am.  So
plenty of times the watch doesn't sync up at midnight, since the lights
are on.  By 3am there's less on, and not much on if I've gone to bed.

There seems to be an issue when Daylight savings kicks in or goes away, at
least with some clocks.  But that's not a generaly sync issue, they get
the signal but miss the DST bit.  I'm thinking that some units may not
switch immediately, because they want more than a single bit one night to
say the time has changed.  So it checks another night, some form of error
checking.

   Michael

 
 
 

Radio controlled clocks WRONG?

Post by DhiaDui » Thu, 11 Apr 2013 01:06:06



> > Anyone else seeing this?  Mine has been wrong for a two or three days

> > running, and has been updating to the incorret time.  What gives?  Any

> > ideas?

> Assuming you haven't changed its orientation (they do work best with the

> antenna aimed at the transmitter), you might check to make sure the

> battery or batteries are fresh.  Measure them with a voltmeter, or at the

> very least mark them with the date when putting in new ones.  They can

> last a long time, but eventually they'll need replacing and weak batteries

> may be an issue.  After all, the clock itself is very low current, as is

> the LCD display, but the radio can be a drain (which is why they tend to

> check only a few times each day, and that in the early hours of the

> morning when interference will be lowest).

> What I've noticed with some is if they get out of sync (usually there's

> some  marker on the LCD to show that it had sync'd up the night before),

> it may not resync.  I don't know why that is, but I've lots sync every so

> often and they dont' resync.  I press the button to resync late at night,

> and that sometimes doesn't work.  So I take out the batteries late at

> night, and then yes indeed, it's sync'ed up again the next morning.

> Rarely does something happen where there is a universal problem.  I have

> four of the clocks, and a Casio Wavecepter, and so long as I have them

> oriented right they will every so often not sync up.  But it's not

> consistent across all five units, one may not sync, every so often it's

> more than one, but I cant' think of a time when they all didn't sync up.

> They are affected by things like CFL lights, so if one night you stay up

> really late, that may affect things (since you leave the light on and that

> interferes).  TV sets may interfere, I suspect less now that they are LCD,

> but to offset that, the switching supplies may be an issue.  My watch

> starts looking for a signal at midnight, the clocks wait till 3am.  So

> plenty of times the watch doesn't sync up at midnight, since the lights

> are on.  By 3am there's less on, and not much on if I've gone to bed.

> There seems to be an issue when Daylight savings kicks in or goes away, at

> least with some clocks.  But that's not a generaly sync issue, they get

> the signal but miss the DST bit.  I'm thinking that some units may not

> switch immediately, because they want more than a single bit one night to

> say the time has changed.  So it checks another night, some form of error

> checking.

>    Michael

I set my time pieces by hand/manually/handually. That clock wayyy up there on the wall in my work shop, I haven't climbed a ladder yet this year just to reset it. It doesn't really matter to me if I reset it or not.
 
 
 

Radio controlled clocks WRONG?

Post by Jim Hayne » Thu, 11 Apr 2013 01:09:55


Quote:> Anyone else seeing this?  Mine has been wrong for a two or three days
> running, and has been updating to the incorret time.  What gives?  Any
> ideas?

NBS changed something in the time format last November.  That broke a
couple of my "atomic" clocks, while others kept on working correctly.
On those that broke the radio tower icon on the display doesn't come on
anymore.
 
 
 

Radio controlled clocks WRONG?

Post by dave » Thu, 11 Apr 2013 01:38:19



>> Anyone else seeing this?  Mine has been wrong for a two or three days
>> running, and has been updating to the incorret time.  What gives?  Any
>> ideas?

> NBS changed something in the time format last November.  That broke a
> couple of my "atomic" clocks, while others kept on working correctly.
> On those that broke the radio tower icon on the display doesn't come on
> anymore.

That Icon is the radio annunciator. If it doesn't come on the clock
isn't able to receive a signal. Have you tried a cold boot? Have you
tried taking the battery out and putting in a fresh one? Putting the
clock outside until it gets its first lock? Then it quits trying for a
signal in the daytime.

I have one of each generation of "atomic" clocks and they all work fine.
I think it took 1 out of 12 an extra day to resolve the advanced timing
(DST) flag.

Did NBS agree to stop leap seconds? GPS time will eventually make it
dark at Noon.

 
 
 

Radio controlled clocks WRONG?

Post by Michael Blac » Thu, 11 Apr 2013 11:29:24



>> Anyone else seeing this?  Mine has been wrong for a two or three days
>> running, and has been updating to the incorret time.  What gives?  Any
>> ideas?

> NBS changed something in the time format last November.  That broke a
> couple of my "atomic" clocks, while others kept on working correctly.
> On those that broke the radio tower icon on the display doesn't come on
> anymore.

They added an FM or phase modulation, in addition to what's already there.
I think they limit the traditional modulation (the one where the carrier
is reduced in power by a certain percentage to indicate a bit) to a few
certain times a day, but I thought the message was garbled so I'm not sure
if that was temporary.

The new additional modulatino scheme won't do a thing for existing
receivers, since they werent' designed for it.  But as new units come out
that can deal with the new modulation scheme, they may benefit since they
are not using the "amplitude modulation" which means they can use limiters
to wipe out signal variation, and likely wipe out a lot of static and
other amplitude based interference.

I've certainly seen nothing to indicate the new arrangement is affecting
my reception, and here in Montreal I must be more distant than many
places.  I just have to orient them properly, but that's always been the
case.  I have not seen any pattern to suggest the new scheme is causing
problems, there has always been some issue every so often in the 9 or so
years since I got the first "atomic clock".

If the icon doesn't come on, then the clock didn't sync up the night
before.  There could be other issues, like I said a weak battery can be an
issue, one of those things you don't realize until you replace the battery
or batteries and then realize things hadn't been good for a while.

One of my clocks even has a signal strength indicator, at least if I'm
watching when it's trying to sync up.  That one seems to be the most
reliable, but it's a larger wall clock so I wonder if it has a longer
loopstick antenna inside.  On the other hand, every so often it doesnt'
sync up, and I actually have to take the batteries out before it will sync
up.

I think my Casio watch also indicates strength.  Those a incredible
things, they have to be oriented but virtually every night since I got it
2 or 3 years ago, it syncs up.  Even one time a few weeks back when I fell
asleep with it on, something that doesnt' usually happen.  The watches are
incredible since they have to have a tiny antenna in there, there's no
room for anything as large as even the travel "atomic clocks" have.

   Michael

 
 
 

Radio controlled clocks WRONG?

Post by DhiaDui » Thu, 11 Apr 2013 23:55:54





> >>> Anyone else seeing this?  Mine has been wrong for a two or three days

> >>> running, and has been updating to the incorret time.  What gives?  Any

> >>> ideas?

> >> NBS changed something in the time format last November.  That broke a

> >> couple of my "atomic" clocks, while others kept on working correctly.

> >> On those that broke the radio tower icon on the display doesn't come on

> >> anymore.

> >They added an FM or phase modulation, in addition to what's already there.

> >I think they limit the traditional modulation (the one where the carrier

> >is reduced in power by a certain percentage to indicate a bit) to a few

> >certain times a day, but I thought the message was garbled so I'm not sure

> >if that was temporary.

> >The new additional modulatino scheme won't do a thing for existing

> >receivers, since they werent' designed for it.  But as new units come out

> >that can deal with the new modulation scheme, they may benefit since they

> >are not using the "amplitude modulation" which means they can use limiters

> >to wipe out signal variation, and likely wipe out a lot of static and

> >other amplitude based interference.

> >I've certainly seen nothing to indicate the new arrangement is affecting

> >my reception, and here in Montreal I must be more distant than many

> >places.  I just have to orient them properly, but that's always been the

> >case.  I have not seen any pattern to suggest the new scheme is causing

> >problems, there has always been some issue every so often in the 9 or so

> >years since I got the first "atomic clock".

> >If the icon doesn't come on, then the clock didn't sync up the night

> >before.  There could be other issues, like I said a weak battery can be an

> >issue, one of those things you don't realize until you replace the battery

> >or batteries and then realize things hadn't been good for a while.

> >One of my clocks even has a signal strength indicator, at least if I'm

> >watching when it's trying to sync up.  That one seems to be the most

> >reliable, but it's a larger wall clock so I wonder if it has a longer

> >loopstick antenna inside.  On the other hand, every so often it doesnt'

> >sync up, and I actually have to take the batteries out before it will sync

> >up.

> >I think my Casio watch also indicates strength.  Those a incredible

> >things, they have to be oriented but virtually every night since I got it

> >2 or 3 years ago, it syncs up.  Even one time a few weeks back when I fell

> >asleep with it on, something that doesnt' usually happen.  The watches are

> >incredible since they have to have a tiny antenna in there, there's no

> >room for anything as large as even the travel "atomic clocks" have.

> >   Michael

> Awhile back when we went DST (Darkness Savings Time)* all my atomic timepieces

> did the correction as expected. I have a couple of wall mounted clocks three

> table clocks and three Casio Solar Atomic watches plus the shortwave XCVR, an

> Ton E1 that sets itself from HF WWV so I doubt the NIST has done anything

> tricky with their encoding. Even the Garmin got it right.

> Oh, and by the way, I used to have a CHU cube that might have worked fine in

> Eastern Canada like the Radio Shack (WWV) time cubes did here. If you happen to

> find one it will probably have the old 7335 instead of the new 7850 as one of

> the choices.

> * I say 'darkness saving time' because when you're out prowling all night you

> get more time until the sky gets light enough to identify you.

> --

> http://alturl.com/cwzud

What y'all 'Atomic clock' people need is a Sundial.
 
 
 

Radio controlled clocks WRONG?

Post by dave » Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:26:52




>>> Anyone else seeing this?  Mine has been wrong for a two or three days
>>> running, and has been updating to the incorret time.  What gives?  Any
>>> ideas?

>> NBS changed something in the time format last November.  That broke a
>> couple of my "atomic" clocks, while others kept on working correctly.
>> On those that broke the radio tower icon on the display doesn't come on
>> anymore.

> They added an FM or phase modulation, in addition to what's already
> there. I think they limit the traditional modulation (the one where the
> carrier is reduced in power by a certain percentage to indicate a bit)
> to a few certain times a day, but I thought the message was garbled so
> I'm not sure if that was temporary.

Oh look:

To allow users of phase tracking receivers time to adjust, the
phase-modulated time code was initially omitted twice daily for 30
minutes, beginning at noon and midnight Mountain Standard time (07:00
and 19:00 UTC). This provided enough opportunity for a receiver to lock
on to the WWVB carrier phase.[7]:4 This allowance was removed as of
March 21, 2013.[11]
[edit] -wikipedia "wwvb"

 
 
 

Radio controlled clocks WRONG?

Post by dave » Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:28:42





>>>> Anyone else seeing this?  Mine has been wrong for a two or three days
>>>> running, and has been updating to the incorret time.  What gives?  Any
>>>> ideas?

>>> NBS changed something in the time format last November.  That broke a
>>> couple of my "atomic" clocks, while others kept on working correctly.
>>> On those that broke the radio tower icon on the display doesn't come on
>>> anymore.

>> They added an FM or phase modulation, in addition to what's already there.
>> I think they limit the traditional modulation (the one where the carrier
>> is reduced in power by a certain percentage to indicate a bit) to a few
>> certain times a day, but I thought the message was garbled so I'm not sure
>> if that was temporary.

>> The new additional modulatino scheme won't do a thing for existing
>> receivers, since they werent' designed for it.  But as new units come out
>> that can deal with the new modulation scheme, they may benefit since they
>> are not using the "amplitude modulation" which means they can use limiters
>> to wipe out signal variation, and likely wipe out a lot of static and
>> other amplitude based interference.

>> I've certainly seen nothing to indicate the new arrangement is affecting
>> my reception, and here in Montreal I must be more distant than many
>> places.  I just have to orient them properly, but that's always been the
>> case.  I have not seen any pattern to suggest the new scheme is causing
>> problems, there has always been some issue every so often in the 9 or so
>> years since I got the first "atomic clock".

>> If the icon doesn't come on, then the clock didn't sync up the night
>> before.  There could be other issues, like I said a weak battery can be an
>> issue, one of those things you don't realize until you replace the battery
>> or batteries and then realize things hadn't been good for a while.

>> One of my clocks even has a signal strength indicator, at least if I'm
>> watching when it's trying to sync up.  That one seems to be the most
>> reliable, but it's a larger wall clock so I wonder if it has a longer
>> loopstick antenna inside.  On the other hand, every so often it doesnt'
>> sync up, and I actually have to take the batteries out before it will sync
>> up.

>> I think my Casio watch also indicates strength.  Those a incredible
>> things, they have to be oriented but virtually every night since I got it
>> 2 or 3 years ago, it syncs up.  Even one time a few weeks back when I fell
>> asleep with it on, something that doesnt' usually happen.  The watches are
>> incredible since they have to have a tiny antenna in there, there's no
>> room for anything as large as even the travel "atomic clocks" have.

>>    Michael

> Awhile back when we went DST (Darkness Savings Time)* all my atomic timepieces
> did the correction as expected. I have a couple of wall mounted clocks three
> table clocks and three Casio Solar Atomic watches plus the shortwave XCVR, an
> ???Ton E1 that sets itself from HF WWV so I doubt the NIST has done anything
> tricky with their encoding. Even the Garmin got it right.
> Oh, and by the way, I used to have a CHU cube that might have worked fine in
> Eastern Canada like the Radio Shack (WWV) time cubes did here. If you happen to
> find one it will probably have the old 7335 instead of the new 7850 as one of
> the choices.
> * I say 'darkness saving time' because when you're out prowling all night you
> get more time until the sky gets light enough to identify you.

http://www.subgenius.com/bigfist/eyes/gallery.html
 
 
 

Radio controlled clocks WRONG?

Post by dave » Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:29:27


Quote:

>> http://alturl.com/cwzud

> What y'all 'Atomic clock' people need is a Sundial.

How is a sun dial not an atomic clock as well?
 
 
 

Radio controlled clocks WRONG?

Post by DhiaDui » Fri, 12 Apr 2013 14:43:23



> >> http://alturl.com/cwzud

> > What y'all 'Atomic clock' people need is a Sundial.

> How is a sun dial not an atomic clock as well?

Doggy, lets hit the sack. ///You got that right, I am laffin me arse off. WOO WOO WOOF!/// You aren't laughing so much you forgot the cookies, did you?  ///Gimme cookies///