Case Closed - Several Cases Closed

Case Closed - Several Cases Closed

Post by Frederick V. Ads » Sat, 10 May 1997 04:00:00


....  excerpted from Usenet ---- ham-policy newsgroup:

Quote:>I got my No-Code Technician license on 3/10/97 and yesterday (5/3/97)
>upgraded to Extra when I passed my 1C test.......

>.....with a little study each day for a month and a half, the test was
doable

>..... if they go back to 1 minute perfect copy for the tests, it will be

a lot harder.

Congratulations to the high-achiever. And welcome to the Personal Radio
Service we know today as Amateur Radio.  I am going to be an optimist and
assume this person will make a fine ham operator and be a great credit to
the Amateur Radio Service.  Too much is missing in the cited message to
give any reason to believe otherwise.  On the other hand, show me the
average ham of years gone by who achieved the highest attainable class of
Amateur license in so short a period.

Case Closed, IMHO.

Several Cases Closed, IMHO.

There are, of known exceptions - those who have
spent 20 years trying & still haven't hit 20wpm.......
No insult intended by that..... just an observation....

Fred NY2V

 
 
 

Case Closed - Several Cases Closed

Post by Monte Sta » Sat, 10 May 1997 04:00:00



>  On the other hand, show me the
> average ham of years gone by who achieved the highest attainable class of
> Amateur license in so short a period.

Hi Fred,

Couldn't be done years ago because you needed "time in grade" before
you could upgrade.

This was because part of being licensed at the higher grades indicated
you knew more about amateur than newcommers. It was meant to be a
time to operate and hone the skills you had demonstrated at the
testing office.

Apples and Oranges.....

But I congratulate all those who upgrade. If it's done fast or slow,
it doesn't matter to me. It's just the act of reaching for and
grabbing a goal that makes us all feel better! (Both the person
who did it and those of us that are just watching!)

cul,

73, Ron,     SOWP 5545M,

.........KU7Y.....ARCI #8829.....Monte "Ron" Stark.....

....QRP-L #17...ARS #49...NorCal #330.....NRA LIFE.....

 
 
 

Case Closed - Several Cases Closed

Post by Michael P. Deign » Sun, 11 May 1997 04:00:00



Quote:>I'm a tech, and am just as involved and dedicated to the hobby as an extra
>class is.  Why is the code so ***y important?

Its not... Unless you want access to HF, in which case it is a requirement.
--
--  Ted Kennedy has killed more people with his car than I have
--  with my guns.
--
--  If you don't like my opinions, that's just too damn bad.
 
 
 

Case Closed - Several Cases Closed

Post by Gary Danahe » Mon, 12 May 1997 04:00:00


> I'm a tech, and am just as involved and dedicated to the hobby as an extra
> class is.  Why is the code so ***y important?



In your comment, you note the obvious.  THAT'S why there is a difference
between tech and extra. Too bad your mother never gave you a real name.
Gary
ab5rm
 
 
 

Case Closed - Several Cases Closed

Post by Bill So » Tue, 13 May 1997 04:00:00


Quote:> On the other hand, show me the
>average ham of years gone by who achieved the highest attainable class of
>Amateur license in so short a period.

The average ham in the pre-incentive licensing days stopped
at General.  There was no reason to go beyond that.

Bill Sohl  K2UNK
ARRL Local Gov't Liaison, Mt. Olive Township, NJ
Visit the No-Code WEB site:   http://www.nocode.org

 
 
 

Case Closed - Several Cases Closed

Post by Frederick V. Ads » Tue, 13 May 1997 04:00:00

>Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 01:12:31 GMT

>Subject: Case Closed - Several Cases Closed


>> On the other hand, show me the
>>average ham of years gone by who achieved the highest attainable class
of
>>Amateur license in so short a period.

>The average ham in the pre-incentive licensing days stopped
>at General.  There was no reason to go beyond that.

>Bill Sohl  K2UNK

Your posting really dances around the theme of my brief and telling
posting, the intent of which was twofold:

1) The ham who wrote the original mail sat down and passed all the
license class tests in one sitting, as best I can tell.  Passing one
class at a time USED to be about all the "average" ham could handle. Of
course, I shunned the Ameco and*** Bash books, because I was not about
to enter an FCC examining room with memorized answers.  I wanted to KNOW
the theory, else I feared I would not pass. That, of course, was my
choice.  I got my Class B and Class A by the time I was a Junior in high
school, and knew a lot about radio at that young age.  All  the hams I
knew in those days were of the same stripe - average folks who studied
license manuals to get the gist of the test, and supplemented that by
reading more in Handbooks. I was well into the hobby before I even knew a
*** Bash book even existed.  ..guess I spent too much time operating to
realize what the real world was, eh?

2) The ham who wrote the original mail sat down and went from 0wpm to
20wpm in one sitting, from what I can gather, and did so after but a few
weeks of study. Again, I had my code speed up beyond 20wpm in a matter of
months after getting the Class B, which in those days was reasonable
since I put some necessary time in grade before I was allowed to move up
the ladder...., so no big deal there.  But, the tests were one minute
solid copy plus a short sending test - which one passed before going to
the written exam. Guesswork would not get one through the code exam, not
that I am assuming the ham whose case I am dealing with guessed his way
thru, but he certainly could have. ...more on solid copy later...

I chose to wait until I was about 35 before going for the Extra.  I did
little operating during college and in the first 5 years of my EE career
-- not enough time due to work and rearing a family of four kids.  I
passed the Extra with ease, but again, I studied the Handbook on the
subjects the license manual said would be on that test.  It was the
easiest of the three I took, and not because I had gone to college in the
interim, BTW.  

I never liked my W2ZOJ call, and envied K2NY for his second call area New
York call.  He died in middle age.  When the FCC computers rolled around
to the NY2's, I took the risk and applied for a call commensurate with my
license class.  As you see, I barely avoided getting NZ2A...  

There you have it.  My point was made simplistically, and you chose to
answer one part of it with a factual statement, but danced around the
totality of my point in making a brief posting.  Now that I have written
you a book on the topic, you go on ahead with your campaign.  

My observations are that most of the debaters just love to take segments
of postings, totally out of context, and simplistically address them in a
condescending manner.  That is your prerogative.  This is an open forum
where those who wish to do so can illustrate their ability, or lack of
it, to debate, or in this case, evidently even to understand the summary
point of my short posting.  
--- ---
BTW, I have noticed that my operating time has decreased radically each
time I read something which seems to demand a reply.  This stuff takes a
bit of time. An incredible amount of repetition occurs here as well.  My
tentative conclusion is that most of the regular debaters spend far more
time in these newsgroups than they do operating their ham stations,
reading the papers and magazines, spending time with their families, and
working.  That, however, is just my opinion, and I could be wrong. I
speed-read this stuff and post rarely, because my ham activity involves a
lot of multi-mode traffic-handling, ARES/RACES drills such as the airport
disaster drill we have coming next Saturday, and so on.  When one gets
deeply involved in ham radio operating, these issues about code testing
seem very petty.
As for the solid copy comment at the beginning, one gets solid copy,
regardless of the mode, in the service of traffic handling, AND in the
tactical services provided to served agencies such as in next weekend's
drill, or one stays out of such activity.
It is a natural part of the operating discipline required to perform
these tasks responsibly; and untrained, undisciplined
copy-notes-in-your-head stuff just does not cut it,  regardless of
operating mode.  I might add that as always, we have been asked to assist
in this simulated air crash at an international airport.  History has
shown the hams keep the best records of the names and condtions of
exactly who gets loaded on what ambulance, when the ambulances leave, and
when and at which hospital they arrive.  These agencies, equipped with
every imaginable communications tool, still expect a sizeable corps of
hams to help them, and expect us to do what we are asked to do, and to do
it right.  If we don't, we hear about it in the debriefings.  To those
who say hams are no longer needed, tell that to our airport
administrators, our police, our paid professional fire departments and
our paid ambulance corps. They have found they do far better WITH our
help than WITHOUT it.  Keeping track of hundreds of injured people is not
easy and has little to do with the professional communications gear these
people now use. We have a track record they have found indispensable.

I got off the track, but it is a point which needs to be made.  I am
tired of the ham- radio-is-only-a-hobby-and-is-obsolete crowd.  Where I
live, some of us ( too damned few out of the total ) take the Service
mentioned in Part 97 seriously. Sorry I got off the rails here, but it is
late and I have to get up in the morning, which is now four hours away,
so this posting addresses two major issues.  So be it.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
        The hardest thing to learn in life
is which bridge to cross and which to burn.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Case Closed - Several Cases Closed

Post by j.. » Tue, 13 May 1997 04:00:00


[snippity snip snip]

Quote:>2) The ham who wrote the original mail sat down and went from 0wpm to
>20wpm in one sitting,...

Huh?  In one sitting?  Did he take the 5 wpm exam first? And then the
13 wpm?  And then the 20 wpm?  I bet he only took ONE code exam.  They
don't begin at 0wpm and work their way up.  At least not at any of the
exam sessions I've worked.

Sorry.  Just had to comment.

BTW:  I think that many a flame-war that goes on in these newsgroups
is precipitated by smart-asses (such as myself--but only to have fun
with 'em) but taken too seriously by thin-skinned folks who need to
back up, re-group and find a life somewhere's else besides ham radio
and the newsgroups.

If people cannot speak civilly to one another here, how are they going
to interact with one another on the air?

My apology again.  The first step onto the soap-box is a short one.

   jim
===========================================
Jim, WK1V

http://www1.shore.net/~jjmartin/jjm.htm
===========================================

 
 
 

Case Closed - Several Cases Closed

Post by Gary Coffm » Tue, 13 May 1997 04:00:00


Quote:>BTW, I have noticed that my operating time has decreased radically each
>time I read something which seems to demand a reply.  This stuff takes a
>bit of time. An incredible amount of repetition occurs here as well.  My
>tentative conclusion is that most of the regular debaters spend far more
>time in these newsgroups than they do operating their ham stations,
>reading the papers and magazines, spending time with their families, and
>working.  That, however, is just my opinion, and I could be wrong.

I expect you're wrong. Most of us participate here in slack moments
when we wouldn't be able to operate anyway. At least that's the pattern
I follow.

Quote:>As for the solid copy comment at the beginning, one gets solid copy,
>regardless of the mode, in the service of traffic handling, AND in the
>tactical services provided to served agencies such as in next weekend's
>drill, or one stays out of such activity.
>It is a natural part of the operating discipline required to perform
>these tasks responsibly; and untrained, undisciplined
>copy-notes-in-your-head stuff just does not cut it,  regardless of
>operating mode.  I might add that as always, we have been asked to assist
>in this simulated air crash at an international airport.  History has
>shown the hams keep the best records of the names and condtions of
>exactly who gets loaded on what ambulance, when the ambulances leave, and
>when and at which hospital they arrive.  These agencies, equipped with
>every imaginable communications tool, still expect a sizeable corps of
>hams to help them, and expect us to do what we are asked to do, and to do
>it right.  If we don't, we hear about it in the debriefings.  To those
>who say hams are no longer needed, tell that to our airport
>administrators, our police, our paid professional fire departments and
>our paid ambulance corps. They have found they do far better WITH our
>help than WITHOUT it.  Keeping track of hundreds of injured people is not
>easy and has little to do with the professional communications gear these
>people now use. We have a track record they have found indispensable.

Yep, exactly right. But how many of those activities have *any* demand
for Morse operation? My experience is that none do. That should be
telling us something.

Quote:>I got off the track, but it is a point which needs to be made.  I am
>tired of the ham- radio-is-only-a-hobby-and-is-obsolete crowd.  Where I
>live, some of us ( too damned few out of the total ) take the Service
>mentioned in Part 97 seriously. Sorry I got off the rails here, but it is
>late and I have to get up in the morning, which is now four hours away,
>so this posting addresses two major issues.  So be it.

I also agree about the public service aspects of amateur radio. They
are important, and too many hams do too little. Training drills are very
important. The maxim about training the way you're going to fight and
you'll fight the way you trained really does apply to public service and
emergency communications. Just showing up when the balloon goes
up won't hack it. You're likely to be more in the way than to be of
assistance. But if you've trained properly, you can be a valuable
member of the team.

Gary
Gary Coffman KE4ZV          | You Make It  | Email:

534 Shannon Way             | Guaranteed   |         or

 
 
 

Case Closed - Several Cases Closed

Post by Cecil A. Moor » Tue, 13 May 1997 04:00:00


> If people cannot speak civilly to one another here, how are they going
> to interact with one another on the air?

Hi Jim, then again, have you ever noticed how really good friends
talk to each other? - scathing terms of endearment?

73, Cecil, W6RCA, OOTC

 
 
 

Case Closed - Several Cases Closed

Post by Yo D » Thu, 15 May 1997 04:00:00


(Gary Coffman) writes:

>>BTW, I have noticed that my operating time has decreased radically each
>>time I read something which seems to demand a reply.  This stuff takes a
>>bit of time. An incredible amount of repetition occurs here as well.  My
>>tentative conclusion is that most of the regular debaters spend far more
>>time in these newsgroups than they do operating their ham stations,
>>reading the papers and magazines, spending time with their families, and
>>working.  That, however, is just my opinion, and I could be wrong.

>I expect you're wrong. Most of us participate here in slack moments
>when we wouldn't be able to operate anyway. At least that's the pattern
>I follow.

>>As for the solid copy comment at the beginning, one gets solid copy,
>>regardless of the mode, in the service of traffic handling, AND in the
>>tactical services provided to served agencies such as in next weekend's
>>drill, or one stays out of such activity.
>>It is a natural part of the operating discipline required to perform
>>these tasks responsibly; and untrained, undisciplined
>>copy-notes-in-your-head stuff just does not cut it,  regardless of
>>operating mode.  I might add that as always, we have been asked to
assist
>>in this simulated air crash at an international airport.  History has
>>shown the hams keep the best records of the names and condtions of
>>exactly who gets loaded on what ambulance, when the ambulances leave,
and
>>when and at which hospital they arrive.  These agencies, equipped with
>>every imaginable communications tool, still expect a sizeable corps of
>>hams to help them, and expect us to do what we are asked to do, and to
do
>>it right.  If we don't, we hear about it in the debriefings.  To those
>>who say hams are no longer needed, tell that to our airport
>>administrators, our police, our paid professional fire departments and
>>our paid ambulance corps. They have found they do far better WITH our
>>help than WITHOUT it.  Keeping track of hundreds of injured people is
not
>>easy and has little to do with the professional communications gear
these
>>people now use. We have a track record they have found indispensable.

>Yep, exactly right. But how many of those activities have *any* demand
>for Morse operation? My experience is that none do. That should be
>telling us something.

Gary:

Answer: none!  Hams participating in such emergency efforts are usually
communicating on VHF/UHF, simplex or using repeaters.  These comms
take place on amateur bands where there is no Morse code testing
requirement.  What does the "demand" for Morse operation have to do
with this?

- Show quoted text -

Quote:>>I got off the track, but it is a point which needs to be made.  I am
>>tired of the ham- radio-is-only-a-hobby-and-is-obsolete crowd.  Where I
>>live, some of us ( too damned few out of the total ) take the Service
>>mentioned in Part 97 seriously. Sorry I got off the rails here, but it
is
>>late and I have to get up in the morning, which is now four hours away,
>>so this posting addresses two major issues.  So be it.

>I also agree about the public service aspects of amateur radio. They
>are important, and too many hams do too little. Training drills are very
>important. The maxim about training the way you're going to fight and
>you'll fight the way you trained really does apply to public service and
>emergency communications. Just showing up when the balloon goes
>up won't hack it. You're likely to be more in the way than to be of
>assistance. But if you've trained properly, you can be a valuable
>member of the team.

I agree completely, and only wish today's new "hams" had some
clue as to what they were doing when they participate in such an
event.  Since public service is mainly a VHF/UHF thing from a
radio operations standpoint, I personally don't see what Morse has
to do with anything, except that the cascading impact of lowered
licensing standards seems to be attracting people to ham radio who
are less inclined to learn and more inclined to make fools of
themselves in order to give the appearance of doing something
important.  It's all connected.

73 de Larry, K3LT
FISTS nr. 2008



(302) 678-4841

 
 
 

Case Closed - Several Cases Closed

Post by The Tie-Dyed Side of the For » Fri, 16 May 1997 04:00:00


>Bad answer Larry. You should have had a listen at 3547 for the
>past few weeks to the Salvation Army logistic net between
>ND, MN, and Chicago.

If you had posted this _during_ the past few weeks, no doubt many
of us would have done so.  Nothing heard there now.